A-max's for hunting?

[Varmint Hunter]

I have had the opposite experience. IME, the AMAX react nothing like the SMK. If anything, they open too easily. This makes them great for the 308 and 708. At 300 RUM speeds to 500 yards they detonate violently. They are great for hunting up to deer size critters at medium velocities.

If I remember correctly, I was shooting the 162 A-Max at 3,150 ft/sec from my 7STW and did not have any bullets "detonate" or explode on the surface. There was certainly some internal "detonation".

I think that you would have to have even greater impact velocity before you had a problem with the 162's.

 

[FEENIX]

My only experience thus far with the A-Max was with HSM 178 gr A-Max in .300 WM. I shot an antelope at 338 yards and performed very well.

 

[Michael Eichele]

If I remember correctly, I was shooting the 162 A-Max at 3,150 ft/sec from my 7STW and did not have any bullets "detonate" or explode on the surface. There was certainly some internal "detonation".

I think that you would have to have even greater impact velocity before you had a problem with the 162's.

I never said detonate on the surface!

I have shot deer with the RUM without any surface detonation. I would however rather use a more stout bullet at the high velocities in the future in case I needed a quartering shot as the entire bullet have completely fragmented inside the vital area. I would hate to see that total fragmentation on a quartering away shot where the bullet may never reach the vitals. I prefer accubonds for the RUM and AMAX's for the 308, 708 as they will penetrate deeper with these calibers than the RUMs. Even though I feel that way, they fly so dang good, I still found myself out there with my RUM and 178 AMAX's. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite. Either way, they have not dissapointed.

Make no mistake, the AMAX is my favorate bullet for hunting up to deer size game. I would never recomend them for elk and bigger no matter what the velocity.

 

[Oliveralan]

Michael, what about hogs? They are built a little tougher. Think it will work on a shoulder shot? I would shoot it from my 300 win mag or 308. I have both 178s and 208s at my disposal. Plan on using 150gr interbonds for the <100 yard shots shall they present themselves, if I can load them to have similar POI at 100yards.

 

[Michael Eichele]

I have never shot a hog with any bullet let alone an AMAX. From everything I have ever read or heard about hogs shoulders, I would not personally ever attempt a shoulder shot on any mature hog with the 30 cal AMAXs up to the 178. I might try the 208 ONCE to see how they would work. If I wanted insurance on good performance on the hogs shoulder, I would stick with the Interbond.

 

[kiwi3006]

This pig took a 162 a-max in the shoulder at 384 yds. Muzzle velocity of 3080 fps. Bullet impacted centre of shoulder, from memory hit the shoulder blade and then went up in to the spine (shot was taken from below at angle of 5-10 degrees) and disintegrated, did not exit. Pig DRT!

 

[Varmint Hunter]

The Berger VLD's are being touted as one of the best hunting bullets available. I find that the A-Max bullet has similar terminal performance, similarly high BC's, cost less, and are easier to find accurate loads for.

While no bullet is perfect for all hunting applications, the A-Max seems hard to beat for shooting deer, antelope, etc @ most distances.

I must admit though, I have been shooting quite a few Accubonds lately and they would perform better under some circumstances..

 

[Kiwi Nate]

Someone mentioned the tough shoulder shield of Boar pigs. Well, as a hog guide and also as a ballistics researcher, I try to keep abreast of this stuff. To be humane, I cut out the shield of a neck shot boar, exactly 1" thick- all cartillage. I put the shield against a dead goat of all things. I went back 50 yards and shot it with the 162 grain Amax at 3275fps. It went through the shield and into the goat but turned to dust, much like a .224" Vmax at close range. Wounding through the goats lungs was reasonable. The test proved that the Amax could pass through the shield with the potential to create a wide wound. Nevertheless, I just wasn't happy about the total disintegration of the projectile into dust- literally powder, rather than larger fragments. Not happy enough to take the test further onto a live, mature boar.

To this end, I have refrained from using the Amax as an "all around" bullet for pigs from the 7RM and RUM. In the 7RM, I really like the performance of the Amax out past 300 yards but its just not the same as a more versatile bullet that works equally as well (penetration) in close. Its OK for sows or young boar pigs, just not my idea of a suitable choice for mature boars. I get to see a lot of boars run off when hit with unsuitable loads so I am kind of overly careful about suitable loads for these guys.

I would rather use the heavier 180 grain VLD in the 7mm as an allrounder for shooting at both point blank ranges out to 700 yards or more. Its either this or if I am using a lighter bullet, then it needs to be controlled expanding. I liked the post that mentioned loading a .300 with either the 150 grain Interbond or a heavy soft bullet as an alternative. When I hear a post like that, I know that the poster has shot a lot of animals- kind of what it takes to form that kind of experience based opinion.

I have the video footage of the rather weird shield test somewhere in this laptop, not that it achieves much. It was just a preliminary test that I wanted to perform rather than shoot and wound a large boar with the Amax at close range.

Someone also mentioned the .30 cal being more flexible due to heavier Amax offerings- its a valid and highly relevent point. The .300's loaded with heavy yet frangible bullets have great potential to produce "all around" performance, more so as we expect rifles to perform at both point blank ranges out to and beyond 1200 yards.

 

[rickdavis81]

So should I stick with the Berger 180 I've been trying to make shoot in my rifle? It sounds like it maybe the best all around bullet available for long distance shooting. I could do the 2 bullet thing but I would rather stick with one if possible.

 

[Kiwi Nate]

Yes, by all means, stick with the 180VLD if it shoots well for you. It does ofcourse have its limitations with regards to game body weights but for the most common species of game, is a good allrounder.

If you want a stouter bullet for that will shoot to a similar POI, the 175gr SMK is an option. Both (VLD/SMK) shoot the same out to 400 yards or so but you will of course, have to double check that both do indeed shoot to the same POI from your barrel. The SMK is kind of better suited to tough boars however, I haven't bothered to dual load. If I was to pick a bullet ideal for tough boar (exit wound/ free bleeding) in the sevens, it would be something like the Accubond or Partition but in doing so, I would lose my LR performance so as compromises go, the VLD is perfect.

A muzzle brake, a heavy barrel or supressor has the ability to dampen harmonic vibration to the point that you can shoot two loads of differing weights/styles/velocities to the same POI or same verticle line- ie 180VLD 3" high at 100/ 160AB, 2" high at 100. Vibration dampening is one way to get around the variations encountered with dual loading. Something to keep in mind if you feel that you would like the option of dual loading.

 

[elkaholic]

Yes, by all means, stick with the 180VLD if it shoots well for you. It does ofcourse have its limitations with regards to game body weights but for the most common species of game, is a good allrounder.

If you want a stouter bullet for that will shoot to a similar POI, the 175gr SMK is an option. Both (VLD/SMK) shoot the same out to 400 yards or so but you will of course, have to double check that both do indeed shoot to the same POI from your barrel. The SMK is kind of better suited to tough boars however, I haven't bothered to dual load. If I was to pick a bullet ideal for tough boar (exit wound/ free bleeding) in the sevens, it would be something like the Accubond or Partition but in doing so, I would lose my LR performance so as compromises go, the VLD is perfect.

A muzzle brake, a heavy barrel or supressor has the ability to dampen harmonic vibration to the point that you can shoot two loads of differing weights/styles/velocities to the same POI or same verticle line- ie 180VLD 3" high at 100/ 160AB, 2" high at 100. Vibration dampening is one way to get around the variations encountered with dual loading. Something to keep in mind if you feel that you would like the option of dual loading.

Nate..I agree with your assessment. I have made the statement in the past that there are long range bullets and there are hunting bullets, but here are no long range hunting bullets! There are some target bullets that work for given conditions and distances and that is why we use them. This is exactly why I make my own bullets for long range hunting.....Rich