7 STW vs 28 Nosler vs 7 RUM according to Nosler's #8 reloading book

[AZShooter]

I was looking at the load data in Nosler's reloading guide #8. I studied the performance of the 7 STW, 28 Nosler and 7 RUM with 168 gr bullets.

I find it interesting that Nosler shows both the 7 STW and 28 Nosler cartridges with max load of 80 gr with H1000. The test barrel of the 7 STW is 24'' while the 28 Nosler is 26''. Velocities are 3093 fps and 3183 fps respectively.

Even more interesting is the case capacity comparisons which I found in a online article from Shooting Times: Ammo Review: The New .28 Nosler - Shooting Times

''When filled to the brim, the .28 Nosler case holds 100.7 grains of water versus 99.6 grains for 7mm STW cases made by Remington and 100.2 grains for those from Federal.'' To me these are virtually the same case capacities.

I guess Nosler has to show their cartridge is superior to the 7 STW by using a shorter 24'' barrel for the 7 STW. This is about as close to an apples vs apples comparison as you will find in their book.

From there on the 28 Nosler blows the 7 STW away by using US 869, RL-33, and RL-50 POWDERS THEY DON'T USE WITH THE STW!



Move to the larger 7 RUM and again the 28 Nosler wins by virtue of different powders used. At least they used the same 26'' barrel length.

I will concede that the 168 gr bullet may not be the top choice for any of these cartridges unless you are running a twist slower than 1 in 9.25 or so. Regardless of that fact, the only powders used with the 7 RUM are H1000, 7828 SSC, and Magnum while Nosler uses 11 powders. Too many to list but I did list the ones that yielded the fastest velocities.

The fastest the 7 RUM sends the 168 shown in the book is 3127 fps, while the 28 Nosler shows 3251 fps.

I hope a few of you found this interesting.

 

[Predator 22]

I noticed that as well. Nosler trying to be top dog while not giving the others a fair shake. I personally like the design of the nosler case, I would have used a bit longer neck but that's just me.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Vested interest usually drives statistics...Same goes for business investors, and the politicians in DC looking to profiteer by swaying a vote.

In other words, I'm not surprised at all. It wouldn't be smart or profitable for Nosler to do an honest apples-to-apples comparison, because they wouldn't sell as many rifles chambered for .28 Nosler, which means less sales for their proprietary brass and ammo, because people in the know would realize that their new cartridge is nothing more than a shorter, beltless STW when it comes to performance. And the people with STW's or want an STW would have no need to switch. Real world stats and tests have proven the STW and .28 Nosler to be virtually identical in all aspects when tested in equal environs.

The 7RUM usually hangs around 25-75 fps more in real world tests. Hardly worth the extra powder consumption, and half the throat and barrel life, in my opinion.

 

[Predator 22]

That was my hole reason for building one. Same or slightly better performance as the stw, no belt, shorter case length, and brass availability for the nosler case and the now available 195's. Should be a absolute hammer on elk. Won't get it done this year but hopefully next.

 

[Trm82]

Noslers book is a waste of money in my books , They use a 26" bbl 7-08 for there load data . Who the hell has a 26" 7-08 for normal use ?
I have never had a STW and never care too but have had two 28 noslers and they really do perform when you load them up and i'm guessing the 7 rum is right there with the 28 but if the RUM was that good you would see a lot more of them.

 

[Predator 22]

The reason I don't like the rum is the case length and that case capacity doesn't make since to me until at least 30 cal at the very bottom and 338 even better. Before nosler came out with the 26 I was looking into wildcatting a case somewhere between the 7mm wsm/7mm RM and the rum. My objective was to fit in a long action with nothing more than a wyatts box, no belt and 30 to 35 degree shoulder. I was looking at the lrm but the only source of brass is gunwerks/hornady. Then nosler came out with there case and like I said the only thing I would change is the neck length.

 

[J E Custom]

Vested interest usually drives statistics...Same goes for business investors, and the politicians in DC looking to profiteer by swaying a vote.

In other words, I'm not surprised at all. It wouldn't be smart or profitable for Nosler to do an honest apples-to-apples comparison, because they wouldn't sell as many rifles chambered for .28 Nosler, which means less sales for their proprietary brass and ammo, because people in the know would realize that their new cartridge is nothing more than a shorter, beltless STW when it comes to performance. And the people with STW's or want an STW would have no need to switch. Real world stats and tests have proven the STW and .28 Nosler to be virtually identical in all aspects when tested in equal environs.

The 7RUM usually hangs around 25-75 fps more in real world tests. Hardly worth the extra powder consumption, and half the throat and barrel life, in my opinion.

+1

I have never owned a 28 Nosler mainly because there is no advantage over the STW. Everyone
talks about the belt being bad (It is not) If you want to shoot a beltless case, all you have to do is fire the belted case one time, and as long as you don't full length size and bump the shoulder you will be using the shoulder to head space on.

Also, usable powder space/volume (Not the neck) for the STW is around 91 grains (Don't know what the 28 Nosler actually is but the velocities for the STW are way better than Nosler says. Most good STWs are capable of 3300+ ft/sec using a 168 grain bullet.

The 7 RUM gets bad press because it is considered to over bored (To much powder capacity) in fact,
any 7 mm with a capacity of over 70 grains is over bored.

The real advantage of the 7 RUM is when shooting the heavy 7mm bullets without excessive pressures to reach higher velocities. with a usable case capacity of around 104 grains of powder increases the number of powders you can use.

The best comparison to these kinds of claims and skewed numbers is the gas mileage numbers put out by the auto manufactures. (There always does better than others).

Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.

J E CUSTOM

 

[IDelkhunter]

Apologies in advance and certainly don't mean to detour the thread, but I'm a little confused by JE's comment about making a belted cartridge shoot like a beltless. I understand that if you fire the belted round, the shoulder will grow to the point where you can bump the shoulder and then headspace off of it. What I am confused by is why FL sizing the brass with S Bushing dies would prevent you from still being able to headspace from the shoulder? I always appreciate JE's input and advice....just can't quite wrap my head around this one.....again....apologies for the distraction.

Thanks,

Marcus

 

[Deleted member 46119]

As for Nosler's #8, I'm with JE and Mud. Propaganda.

IE:
I make Ferrari so Ferrari is faster than Porsche.
You make Porsche so Porsche is faster than Ferrari.

I made 28 Nosler so 28 Nosler is the best.
Mud made 7STW before so 7STW is best.
JE made 7RUM so 7RUM is best.

(just joking guys)

It is all in the eye of the rifle holder and only up for discussion when not holding a rifle on game or target. When holding the rifle on game or target, it just doesn't matter does it.

 

[AZShooter]

I have so often commented on other threads, I thought it was time I generated one.

I have owned three 7 RUMs, and one 7 STW. I managed to sell those Rums before they were shot out. Having a restless nature I rebarreled the STW.

When brass was hard to find I made a 7mm/375 Ruger. This is before the 7 LRM or the 28 Nosler were created. The 375 Ruger brass is always available so I will most likely keep using the 7mm/375 Ruger till I get restless again.

If I were to consider a case larger than a 7 Rem mag today, I would most likely go for the 28 Nosler if for no other reason than brass availability.

Nosler did us a favor. We who shoot cartridges with similar capacities can get ideas on how the newer powders perform.

 

[J E Custom]

Apologies in advance and certainly don't mean to detour the thread, but I'm a little confused by JE's comment about making a belted cartridge shoot like a beltless. I understand that if you fire the belted round, the shoulder will grow to the point where you can bump the shoulder and then headspace off of it. What I am confused by is why FL sizing the brass with S Bushing dies would prevent you from still being able to headspace from the shoulder? I always appreciate JE's input and advice....just can't quite wrap my head around this one.....again....apologies for the distraction.

Thanks,

Marcus

No Problem Marcus. Maybe I can clear it up for you.

Belted cases were designed to be chambered under the worst conditions (It was designed by Holland and Holland for the 375) The idea was to be able to headspace a cartridge correctly that was under size so it could fit in a dirty or fouled chamber in an emergency. belted cases are typically much smaller than the chamber. (Much like the cartridges that are small base sized for semi autos to function better) but can still head space properly/safely.

When you head space a belted cartridge, Headspace is from the case head to the front of the belt.
When fired, the case moves back removing any head space and blows the shoulder forward. The case now fits the chamber and has NO headspace. if you neck size only the case wild sit against the shoulder and have what ever the headspace was (.001 to .003) in front of the belt for clearance and not need the belt anymore to position the cartridge.

Most belted cartridge shooters neck size only to increase brass life by not over working it. (NOTE: this is not recommended for dangerous game hunting because it defeats the reason for having the belt in the first place). sometimes after many firings or very hot loads a slight full length sizing (Size only enough to chamber the round)may be necessary to chamber the round.

There is another advantage to the belt when designing a wildcat. If you head space the parent cartridge correctly, there is no need to jam the bullet into the lands for fire forming. The case is held very close to the bolt (.0005 to .001) and the risk of case head separation is greatly reduced.

So with the belted case neck sized only, or slightly sized it is not using the belt to head space. it is using the shoulder to hold the case in the proper position. The type of die makes no difference for this method of sizing.

Hope this explains the question. (I am not the best wordsmith).

J E CUSTOM

 

[IDelkhunter]

Thanks a ton for the explanation. As usual, you make it easy to understand for those of us still learning (at least I hope I understand...;-). I guess I wasn't ringing up that the FL die requires a set up where the shoulder is always pushed far enough back to ensure the round would always headspace off the belt? For some reason I thought you couldn't bump the shoulder with a neck die (obviously I usually only FL size)?

Thanks again.....

 

[Deleted member 46119]

J E Custom,

Very well said.

 

[J E Custom]

As for Nosler's #8, I'm with JE and Mud. Propaganda.

IE:
I make Ferrari so Ferrari is faster than Porsche.
You make Porsche so Porsche is faster than Ferrari.

I made 28 Nosler so 28 Nosler is the best.
Mud made 7STW before so 7STW is best.
JE made 7RUM so 7RUM is best.

(just joking guys)

It is all in the eye of the rifle holder and only up for discussion when not holding a rifle on game or target. When holding the rifle on game or target, it just doesn't matter does it.

+1 Fred.

But I am not sure I have a favorite rifle in any caliber. Each cartridge has it place and can perform well if loaded with ammo that is best suited for that cartridge.

Unfortunately, many people buy a rifle chambered in the "Newest", "fastest" or the one that is the designer cartridge of the month. and even though it is rated for xxxx velocity, they think they can bump the velocity way up without any consequences.

I found out many years ago it was best to decide what bullet weight, distance to be used and velocity needed at that distance to take the game being hunted. If I needed to use a big/heavy bullet fast, I went with a big cartridge that would hold plenty of powder.

I have owned most of the 7mms and still have 5 different ones that all fill the use I use them for.
In my opinion the 7 RUM is best for the heaviest 7mm bullets so that is what I load for it.

When I was match shooting using a 308 win I tried everything from the 130 grain bullets to the 240 grain match king. the 308 did not have enough case/powder capacity to push the 240 at any usable speed to be effective at 1000 yards+ so I built a 30/338 and It worked very well at those distances.
I also tried a 7mm rem with 168 MKs at 3254. it was awesome but brass life was 2 shots.

The 28 Nosler looks like a great cartridge and if loaded correctly will have a following. but if it is expected to compete with larger cartridges it will be problematic. So the 7 rum is not better just bigger.

So I guess any accurate rifle is my favorite.

J E CUSTOM