.338 rcm
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J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Just an opinion, but the 338 RCM is at its best with 200 to 225 grain bullets because of case capacity. Mine is on a 24" barrel and gets over 3000 ft/sec using a 200 gr bullet and over 2800
ft/sec with a 225 grain Accubond.
I looked at all of the "Short" mags in 338 and 323 and went with the RCM and have never looked back. It is a powerful round and lends its self to the short actions so I personally would not use a long action or barrel over 24 to 26''or a bullet over 225 because the gain would not be enough to justify it.
With the pressures of the RCM, long seating can get hairy so I also recommend seating at SAMME COAL.
The down side to mine is the rifle weighs just over 6 lbs dressed and recoil is tough (42.1 ft/lbs without a brake)
I really don't know how much you will gain with the setup you are asking about but if you do build it please post the results.
J E CUSTOM
WildRose
Well-Known Member
I gave the .338 RCM and .325wsm both serious consideration for a long time.
I then accidentally stumbled on a really good buy on a .375Ruger just as I began planning my trip to Africa and took a gamble on it.
I couldn't be happier!
At some point I'm going to either buy a factory Ruger with the 24" barrel to go along with my 20" or take one of my stainless Model 70 actions and build another .375R with a 26 or 28" tube.
I decided I just couldn't realy see the .338RCM offering me anything substantial when I already have .300wm's and .300Rum's.
The .375R however is proving to really be a lot of fun and a whopper of a stopper for anything from deer and hogs up to and including any game in Africa.
I agree with J E Custom that this cartridge does its best in short action form with the 200-225 gr bullets. I have two 338 RCMs. The first one is a SA Ruger tang safety with a useable mag box of 3.050" The 225 accubond is very accurate and lethal on elk. I have taken 3 with this rifle.
While I know you want to use a Long Action here is my data on the sporter rifle:
The barrel is a 22" #2 Lilja SS 1 in 10 twist.
I originally used some 215 sierras I had hanging around. After break in tried some 180 ballistic tips. Ended up with finalized hunting load using the 225 accubond. Mag box was altered to approx 3.050". OAL with 225 accubond is 2.980"
225 accubonds: worked up to 61 gr of RL-17 / 2750 fps with Fed 210 match primer.
180 nosler bt: worked up to 64 gr of RL-17/ 3045 fps. 62 gr had same POI at 225s.
215 sierras: worked up to 55 gr of Varget, most accurate 54 gr/ 2730 fps.
215 sierras: worked up to 64 gr of H4350/ 2865 fps
As a lark I tried 300 gr sierras seated kissing the rifling, OAL was too long for magazine.
Much to my surprise during testing two touched at 200 yds with 57grs of RL-17/ 2450 fps
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Now on to the Long Action:
First thing I would do is seat a bullet and see how it feeds. Then ask your gunsmith if he can lengthen the throat if you intend to shoot the 250s or longer.
Several years ago I used a LA Mark X action to build a long throated 338 RCM. I owned the reamer. I also had a used 30" 7 mm barrel. I sent everything to Dan Pederson and had him rebore/rerifle the barrel and install it on that action. I asked for a 1 in 9 twist. I had Dan lengthen the throat (approx. .085 longer) to accommodate the 300 gr Sierra. Finished barrel length is 29".
Some loads with 300 gr bullets:
300 gr sierra kissing rifling 57.5 gr RL-17/2540 fps. It is very accurate out to 500M. I use fed 210 match primer.
When the 300 gr hybrids arrived I switched. Finalized load 56.5 grs RL-17/2525 fps 210 match.
The most amazing part was the consistent velocities with some load testing with ZERO ES for 5 shots.
The 29" barrel is in a Russo stock and weighs approx 14 lbs. I used it one time and took a coues wt hunt at 425 yds.
If you do some number crunching you will see that the 300 gr with its high BC is quite a performer even at the mundane velocity of just over 2500 fps. Try the 250 gr bullet but also give the 300 Berger a try.
Hope this helps.
While I know you want to use a Long Action here is my data on the sporter rifle:
The barrel is a 22" #2 Lilja SS 1 in 10 twist.
I originally used some 215 sierras I had hanging around. After break in tried some 180 ballistic tips. Ended up with finalized hunting load using the 225 accubond. Mag box was altered to approx 3.050". OAL with 225 accubond is 2.980"
225 accubonds: worked up to 61 gr of RL-17 / 2750 fps with Fed 210 match primer.
180 nosler bt: worked up to 64 gr of RL-17/ 3045 fps. 62 gr had same POI at 225s.
215 sierras: worked up to 55 gr of Varget, most accurate 54 gr/ 2730 fps.
215 sierras: worked up to 64 gr of H4350/ 2865 fps
As a lark I tried 300 gr sierras seated kissing the rifling, OAL was too long for magazine.
Much to my surprise during testing two touched at 200 yds with 57grs of RL-17/ 2450 fps
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now on to the Long Action:
First thing I would do is seat a bullet and see how it feeds. Then ask your gunsmith if he can lengthen the throat if you intend to shoot the 250s or longer.
Several years ago I used a LA Mark X action to build a long throated 338 RCM. I owned the reamer. I also had a used 30" 7 mm barrel. I sent everything to Dan Pederson and had him rebore/rerifle the barrel and install it on that action. I asked for a 1 in 9 twist. I had Dan lengthen the throat (approx. .085 longer) to accommodate the 300 gr Sierra. Finished barrel length is 29".
Some loads with 300 gr bullets:
300 gr sierra kissing rifling 57.5 gr RL-17/2540 fps. It is very accurate out to 500M. I use fed 210 match primer.
When the 300 gr hybrids arrived I switched. Finalized load 56.5 grs RL-17/2525 fps 210 match.
The most amazing part was the consistent velocities with some load testing with ZERO ES for 5 shots.
The 29" barrel is in a Russo stock and weighs approx 14 lbs. I used it one time and took a coues wt hunt at 425 yds.
If you do some number crunching you will see that the 300 gr with its high BC is quite a performer even at the mundane velocity of just over 2500 fps. Try the 250 gr bullet but also give the 300 Berger a try.
Hope this helps.
I don't know if you are familiar with CDNN Sports in Abilene.
They have 338 RCM Ruger 77 Hawkeye and M77 Compact both walnut on sale. $499.
I get emails for their sales.
I'm not too familiar with TX, just thought you could check it out.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
That's pretty cheap just for an action to build on.
I think though that I'll use one of my stainess long M70 actions if and when I decide to get this project started. I like both actions but I've had a forty plus year love affair with the pre 64's and the new CRF M70 actions.
Frank in the Laurels
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My only question is why?? All this over a few inches and ounces...seems like a lot for so little.. A good old .338wm will handle everything that little stubby will do and more. What's the brass situation is always my next question ..now and ten years down the line...seems like a no need gamble but enjoy it either way ..
Why the 338 RCM? Why not? It is always fun to play with new offerings from the manufacturers.
I find the performance of the aforementioned 22" sporter using 61 grs of powder moving a 225 gr accubond @ 2750 fps very appealing. The Rifle with a 4.5-14 Leupold weighing 7 1/2 lbs yields 31 ft/lb of recoil which is quite tolerable.
I find the performance of the aforementioned 22" sporter using 61 grs of powder moving a 225 gr accubond @ 2750 fps very appealing. The Rifle with a 4.5-14 Leupold weighing 7 1/2 lbs yields 31 ft/lb of recoil which is quite tolerable.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
+1
The main reason I chose the 338 RCM was because it could be built on a Model 7 Remington action
(Even shorter than a short action Mod 700).
Its purpose was to have a very powerful cartridge in a very light weight and compact rifle for bear
protection. I personally don't like light weight rifles, But while camping in bear country It seems like the right choice for protection and something that a person would carry around with them rather than leave it in camp because it was/is to heavy just to take while taking a walk.
It is very close to the power of the 338 win mag and does not require a long action. Recoil can be brisk, But who cares when it saves you from being on a bears menu.
There are lots of powerful cartridges and this is just one of them. It just happens to work on a very small, Lightweight rifle that works well close end or up to great distances.
J E CUSTOM
Frank in the Laurels
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Another classic ultimate rifle gone by the wayside by it's own manufacturer that would have fit your needs perfectly would have been the model 7 stainless synthetic in 300 SAUM.... I don't think a more exact rifle for your needs was ever produced by a factory. It's a shame they never let this rifle and cartridge exist. I bought one for my son for exactly the reasons you stated, it's a great shooter, super accurate and short, lightweight and powerful. The 300 SAUM with a good x-bullet/partition will handle and do anything the federal will do with ease....not sure if you could find one but it's worth looking for.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
I see several on GB right now along with brass and ammo.
http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=300+saum
At the prices being offered I wouldn't be afraid to jump on one IF I had any use for one at all. As many 30 cals I already have I'd have a hard time justifying the buy to myself much less the wife HA!
Frank in the Laurels
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Yeah..there's two stainless version I saw with a quick glance that were the stainless synthetic version...some also have brass and dies also...at $700-800 range it's not much different from today's prices and I know the metal work and fit and finish will be much better than today's production line versions...not a lot of people shoot the .300saum or have little experience with one but it's an awesome little cartridge, I've also found it to be extremely accurate with H-4350 ..I wouldn't be afraid to take on any animal in North America with a x-bullet/partition..and that little rifle is awesome...
Is the main reason you're going 338 RCM over 338 WSM to fit better into the slightly shorter remington short action?
I have a 338 WSM built on a model 70 short action, and it's just a fun little gun. It is my understanding, which could be wrong, that the WSM case has a bit more case capacity... but you guys are all stating performance levels beyond what I am able to get out of my 338wsm with a 24" barrel. Maybe it's just that I"m using H4350 and not RL17? Or I must be missing something about the capability of the RCM case...
Anyways, this is a cool thread. JE Custom, I would love to see your lightweight 338 RCM. My wsm weighs in a touch under 8 lbs fully outfitted, and it's a beast to shoot. I can't imagine what yours would be like at darn near 2 lbs lighter!
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
You are missing nothing with the 338/WSM. It does have more case capacity than the RCM.
My decision was based on many different things at the time. WSM ammo had become hard to get
and the bullet selection for the .323 diameter is/was not very good. The wildcat 338/WSM would solve the bullet issue so it is a good choice except the brass issue.
At the time the 338 RCM had factory ammo available and the difference in performance can be made up with proper reloading and bullet seating.
When I go into a new cartridge, I always check to see if the cases can be made from other cartridges if there becomes a shortage. (They can) and also buy at least 300 to 500 rounds of brass
just is case.
It has been a great little cartridge and is very handy in the little MOD 7. I have very good accuracy and have found nothing It would not drop in there tracks.
As I said earlier, I am not a big fan of compact/light rifles, but for this application I had to make some concessions, Surprisingly, I am enjoying it and use it often. I have a low power, light weight scope that works well for nighttime hog hunting and there are no second shots required. I would not hesitate to use it on bear or elk.
The longest shot I have made so far with it was just under 300 yards, (Just a chip shot for it) and have no doubts that it will kill at much longer distances.
J E CUSTOM
