.270 AI vs .280 AI SAAMI vs .280 AI 40 degree information.

[Alibiiv]

I've been researching to make a build for about three or four months now. I've had trouble finding a smith to work on the Ruger 77 tang safety actions, however finally found a gunsmith in Montana who really likes Rugers and likes working on them. Why a Ruger some might say, well is it what I have and like to shoot, and what I want to shoot and hunt with. Now the fun part, what caliber do I want to make the build in. The first thought is that I "really" like the .270 Winchester, so the .270 AI ought to really make a great build!! There isn't a whole lot of information on the .270 AI, and the articles I read stated that P.O. thought the .270 Winchester to be an already overbore caliber; and, as such there would not be enough gain to make the effort worth making the improvement. So ruled that one out, but not totally yet; the rifle is still in shipping and has not arrived at the smith's yet. Then got into the real nightmare of trying to figure out/understand the whole .280 AI SAAMI (Nosler is what it ought to be called to eliminate a whole lot of confusion!!). J.E. Custom and a few other posters really helped me figure this whole mess out. I called the smith and asked if it he had a reamer for the .280 AI, 40 degree (original wildcat), he stated that he did and only had to run the reamer in an additional .014 thousandths to generate the wildcat chamber/caliber. Thus I settled on the .280AI 40 degree. I figure that if I am going to fire form my casings, I might as well have something unique and have with a bit more powder capacity at the same time. The stumbling point that I am at presently is that I cannot find any information at all on the .280 AI 40`? I suspect that I can start at or around the .280 AI (SAAMI) load data, it's just that it would be good if I could find something a bit more concrete than that; but, this probably is what a wildcat caliber is about. I have seen P.O. Ackley America's Gunsmith book for $50, however some of the articles that I have read state that the book really doesn't have that much data in it. Can anyone tell me if there is some literature where that I can either buy or research for the original Ackley calibers. If the book has what I am looking for I will happily buy it.

 

[FEENIX]

This boils down to personal preference and intended purpose. I originally was going for a .280 AI build but went with .270 AI and couldn't be any happier. As far as not many information out there, it's exactly what enticed me about it.

I'm glad you found a gunsmith here in MT. Good luck on your build but be prepared to get persuaded for another built other than your list of choices.

Ed

 

[lancetkenyon]

.014" deeper on the reamer won't amount to any significant case capacity, maybe .2-.4 grains. I would use .280AI SAAMI load info. Because we all know different rifles behave differently. Use .280AI Nosler brass and seat the bullets to the lands. Fore form, run your dies out .012" out to bump the shoulder back .002", and lock the die down. You will still have headstamped brass, just that they will only work in YOUR .280AI rifle.

 

[Edd]

.014" calculates to about .57 grains of water. I wouldn't let that influence a decision.

 

[Alibiiv]

This boils down to personal preference and intended purpose. I originally was going for a .280 AI build but went with .270 AI and couldn't be any happier. As far as not many information out there, it's exactly what enticed me about it.

I'm glad you found a gunsmith here in MT. Good luck on your build but be prepared to get persuaded for another built other than your list of choices.

Ed

Yes me too, Olson Gunsmithing out of Plains. Mt.. I got the referral from one of the threads here. I was having trouble finding a smith who would work on and who was willing to do work on Ruger 77s. Someone gave me his info and suggested that I call him. I researched his name and found nothing but good stuff about him. One of the reviews said that he was not one to talk on the phone. I found that to be just the opposite. When I called his wife answered, and I asked his wife if there was a good time to call. I called at the time she suggested and we talked for a considerable amount of time. We even talked about some of the rifles he'd built for himself for hunting. During that time we talked about the things he would do to make the Ruger shoot well and I was happy to ship the rifle to him. Believe me I spoke to a number of popular barrel makers, smiths before I found someone who was actually encouraging about making the build with the Ruger 77. I am actually building two Ruger 77s, one for me and one for my son because I had two .270 Winchesters that are going to make great donors. I understand what you are saying about suggestions for other choices for calibers; that's what encouraged me to change from the .270AI to the .280 AI 40`. I am going to hunt deer with this rifle out to 500-600 yards, or maybe a mule deer/antelope hunt with an outfitter who is willing to take an old guy who doesn't walk to well!? I don't intend to shoot bullets that would be considered heavy, high BC bullets so 1 in 8 twist. And....I want to be able to go to the range and shoot the rifle without having my arm in a sling the next day.

 

[FEENIX]

Yes me too, Olson Gunsmithing out of Plains. Mt.. I got the referral from one of the threads here. I was having trouble finding a smith who would work on and who was willing to do work on Ruger 77s. Someone gave me his info and suggested that I call him. I researched his name and found nothing but good stuff about him. One of the reviews said that he was not one to talk on the phone. I found that to be just the opposite. When I called his wife answered, and I asked his wife if there was a good time to call. I called at the time she suggested and we talked for a considerable amount of time. We even talked about some of the rifles he'd built for himself for hunting. During that time we talked about the things he would do to make the Ruger shoot well and I was happy to ship the rifle to him. Believe me I spoke to a number of popular barrel makers, smiths before I found someone who was actually encouraging about making the build with the Ruger 77. I am actually building two Ruger 77s, one for me and one for my son because I had two .270 Winchesters that are going to make great donors. I understand what you are saying about suggestions for other choices for calibers; that's what encouraged me to change from the .270AI to the .280 AI 40`. I am going to hunt deer with this rifle out to 500-600 yards, or maybe a mule deer/antelope hunt with an outfitter who is willing to take an old guy who doesn't walk to well!? I don't intend to shoot bullets that would be considered heavy, high BC bullets so 1 in 8 twist. And....I want to be able to go to the range and shoot the rifle without having my arm in a sling the next day.

Yep, I've heard of him. He's about 4 hours northwest of me. Lilja barrels is also in Plains, should you decide on their barrel. I have (30" 1:8" 3G on my .270 AI and 27" 1:9" 3G on my .30 LARA) two of Dan's barrels and are extremely pleased with them.

I too have a Ruger MKII in .338 WM, I might go with .375 Ruger when it is due for a re-barrel.

Good luck on you build.

Ed

 

[adam32]

Those Tang safety Rugers are good Rifles...I use one for a "test" gun...it's on its 4th barrel. Started as a 7mm Rem Mag, then a 270 WSM, a 6-350 Rem Mag Improved and now it's a .257 Weatherby...who knows what it will be next!!!

 

[Alibiiv]

.014" deeper on the reamer won't amount to any significant case capacity, maybe .2-.4 grains. I would use .280AI SAAMI load info. Because we all know different rifles behave differently. Use .280AI Nosler brass and seat the bullets to the lands. Fore form, run your dies out .012" out to bump the shoulder back .002", and lock the die down. You will still have headstamped brass, just that they will only work in YOUR .280AI rifle.

Yes and this is where the confusion starts with the mixed information on this caliber. My humble understanding of this caliber is that the original Ackley Improved cartridges all used the exact, same dimensions of the original parent case with the exception of straightening out the taper on the outside walls of the case, pushing the shoulder forward and changing the angle of the shoulder to 40 degrees. With that said the original .280 Remington case length is 2.540 thousandths long. Now the .280 Ackley Improved (SAAMI), (Nosler's version) measures 2.525 thousandths case length. Now we have a .015 thousandths difference in the overall length of the case. I am afraid that if I do what you are suggesting in this post to fire form my cases for the .280AI wildcat from the .280AI SAAMI, that I will end up with cases that are .015 thousandths too short because Nosler chose to shorten the SAAMI version by .015 thousandths for "whatever" reason. Again in my humble understanding of the caliber, "if" I choose the .280AI 40` (wildcat), I can use regular .280 Remington brass or .270 Winchester brass (no trimming), open the necks to 30 caliber, set a false shoulder by backing a .280 Remington full length sizing die out .015 thousandths and fire form my cases in the .280 AI 40` chamber. Wow lots of stuff going on here!! PLEASE if I am incorrect here.......................let me know, otherwise I'll probably be making some big mistakes.

 

[Alibiiv]

Yep, I've heard of him. He's about 4 hours northwest of me. Lilja barrels is also in Plains, should you decide on their barrel. I have (30" 1:8" 3G on my .270 AI and 27" 1:9" 3G on my .30 LARA) two of Dan's barrels and are extremely pleased with them.

I too have a Ruger MKII in .338 WM, I might go with .375 Ruger when it is due for a re-barrel.

Good luck on you build.

Ed

Yes it will be a Lilja barrel (26 inch), he said it takes about two months to order one.

 

[FEENIX]

Yes it will be a Lilja barrel (26 inch), he said it takes about two months to order one.

Good on you! I'm sure he's going to build you a shooter.

 

[Alibiiv]

Good on you! I'm sure he's going to build you a shooter.

I believe that he will, and I have confidence in him. Thank you

 

[RockyMtnMT]

My experience with Dennis is very good. Congrats on the two new rifles.

 

[Caveman0101]

If you can find some of the archived load info from the reloaders nest it might be of some use.

 

[Heavyiron]

Yes and this is where the confusion starts with the mixed information on this caliber. My humble understanding of this caliber is that the original Ackley Improved cartridges all used the exact, same dimensions of the original parent case with the exception of straightening out the taper on the outside walls of the case, pushing the shoulder forward and changing the angle of the shoulder to 40 degrees. With that said the original .280 Remington case length is 2.540 thousandths long. Now the .280 Ackley Improved (SAAMI), (Nosler's version) measures 2.525 thousandths case length. Now we have a .014 thousandths difference in the overall length of the case. I am afraid that if I do what you are suggesting in this post to fire form my cases for the .280AI wildcat from the .280AI SAAMI, that I will end up with cases that are .014 thousandths too short because Nosler chose to shorten the SAAMI version by .014 thousandths for "whatever" reason. Again in my humble understanding of the caliber, "if" I choose the .280AI 40` (wildcat), I can use regular .280 Remington brass or .270 Winchester brass (no trimming), open the necks to 30 caliber, set a false shoulder by backing a .280 Remington full length sizing die out .014 thousandths and fire form my cases in the .280 AI 40` chamber. Wow lots of stuff going on here!! PLEASE if I am incorrect here.......................let me know, otherwise I'll probably be making some big mistakes.

Yes you are correct , the wildcat version is longer. Why nosler did not use the wildcat cartridge is beyond me. Confusion will start maybe years later when someone gets a wildcat barreled rifle and tries to shoot nosler made ammo in it.
I have the wildcat version and it is very accurate, and it will be in my estate sale. The best thing about it is if you lose your ammo on a hunt, you can use regular 280 ammo.
Why saami even approved something so confusing is beyond me.