6.5 prc for elk?

choprzrul said:

About 130 years ago the 30-30 Winchester arrived and was absolutely magical on elk until the 30-06 usurped it probably sometime after WWI.

I do wonder how many elk have fallen since the mid 1890's to the old 30-30?

Remind me, is the 6.5 PRC a better elk round than the 30-30?

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BigNate said:

For those who have had rodeos, especially with "magnum" cartridges, what bullet were you using and how far was the shot?

The reason I ask is my thoughts now are that bullet choice is so much more critical than the caliber, and even cartridge.

The same bullet that worked flawlessly from a 7-08 may be trash out of a 28 Nosler in the same circumstance, but likewise the perfect choice farther away.

Choosing a sturdy bullet for close shots is fine until the opportunity is at 600 yards. At distance the wound channel is narrow but will most likely exit. The inverse is also true, for example the Berger might be perfect for a long poke, but terrible when a close shot in the thick is what's presented on the way to your favorite overwatch position.

I have shot some elk but will never get the opportunity to shoot like some of those with culling experience.

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BigNate said:

For those who have had rodeos, especially with "magnum" cartridges, what bullet were you using and how far was the shot?

The reason I ask is my thoughts now are that bullet choice is so much more critical than the caliber, and even cartridge.

The same bullet that worked flawlessly from a 7-08 may be trash out of a 28 Nosler in the same circumstance, but likewise the perfect choice farther away.

Choosing a sturdy bullet for close shots is fine until the opportunity is at 600 yards. At distance the wound channel is narrow but will most likely exit. The inverse is also true, for example the Berger might be perfect for a long poke, but terrible when a close shot in the thick is what's presented on the way to your favorite overwatch position.

I have shot some elk but will never get the opportunity to shoot like some of those with culling experience.

Click to expand...

BigNate said:

For those who have had rodeos, especially with "magnum" cartridges, what bullet were you using and how far was the shot?

The reason I ask is my thoughts now are that bullet choice is so much more critical than the caliber, and even cartridge.

The same bullet that worked flawlessly from a 7-08 may be trash out of a 28 Nosler in the same circumstance, but likewise the perfect choice farther away.

Choosing a sturdy bullet for close shots is fine until the opportunity is at 600 yards. At distance the wound channel is narrow but will most likely exit. The inverse is also true, for example the Berger might be perfect for a long poke, but terrible when a close shot in the thick is what's presented on the way to your favorite overwatch position.

I have shot some elk but will never get the opportunity to shoot like some of those with culling experience.

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johnwm said:

I'm not a longrange hunter, but I am an admirer of bigger, heavier bullets in general. Won't say "magnum" because that's just a marketing term that doesn't define anything precisely, but as an example here I'll say that the .300WM is likely my favourite cartridge for most hunting use; in my case that means deer/moose.

I keep hearing it repeated that "most" people...whatever that means...will shoot "better" with a 6.5 as opposed to a .300...and, by extension, that a .338 will be even worse. That's obviously true when we're talking about extended shooting sessions; the big gun will be more fatiguing more quickly, and the results will show that. How soon those results become apparent is a function of practice and experience, but it's going to happen.

But that's not hunting. Hunting typically, ideally, involves just one perfect shot; one or two more might occasionally be called for, but that's pretty much it 99+% of the time. And the simple fact is that a single shot in a hunting scenario, or a couple shots, can be fired just as accurately with a .375H&H as with a 6.5Whatever. If the single or couple shots turns into a string of shots, then absolutely, the big gun will make it more difficult to maintain that accuracy than the smaller one...but that's not the goal anyway. We want the animal down and dead as quickly as possible

Many people who don't or won't own the big guns like to mock those who do; it often sounds like a case of "if I can't do it, there's no way that you can do it!" A lot of those folks have never even tried it, but they "know" that it can't be done. I think a big part of the problem is that many shooters can only shoot at a rifle range that requires driving a fair distance, and so when they go they want to pack as much shooting as possible into the range time they have. They aren't willing to only shoot a couple groups out of a particular rifle and then put it aside...but a bigger gun might need to be treated that way. Thus, they exceed their own personal limits for that particular gun; the cumulative effect of recoil destroys their concentration and focus, their accuracy degrades, and the immediate reaction is that "I can shoot the little gun much better!" Of course you can; if you want or need to shoot group after group after group, the little gun makes it easier for you to do that...but it doesn't mean the big one can't be shot just accurately for a shorter time. It just means you can't shoot it as much on any single occasion as the small one.

Those of us fortunate enough to be able to shoot close to home, or at home, can space out our shooting, keeping each session short enough that fatigue doesn't become an issue. I shoot virtually every day, although the bulk of it is with rimfires. When I was preparing for an African hunt, I shot a bit literally every day with my .375 for several months before hand. Over time, the number of shots I could shoot effectively increased gradually; by the time the trip arrived, I could comfortably shoot 40 or 50 shots before my mind started to wander and my accuracy went downhill. But...that was more shots than I fired the entire time I was in Africa, including the initial rifle-check upon arrival, so it was more than enough.

I'm not suggesting that the smaller guns aren't effective; in most cases they will do the job, but there will inevitably be occasions when the big guns are superior as long as you can shoot them effectively. Whether you want to use them because a bigger, heavier bullet is superior...or because the nostalgia and tradition of a cartridge like the H&H makes a hunt more enjoyable...or because a specific rifle you like happens to be chambered in one of the big boomers...well, these are all valid reasons for many of us...whether many of you believe it or not.

Everybody should shoot what they want, without insisting that everybody else is wrong.

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Viking142 said:

I hear the theory a lot. There is a lot of "I think" or "It should" The "margin for error" "Save your poor shot" etc. I have yet to see it happen in real life, and honestly I don't recall anyone in this thread or anywhere else for that matter relaying a story where their magnum saved the day. It sure has not been the case in my experience. What I can say is that I have yet to meet a person who can shoot a magnum as well as a 6.5.

I cannot even guess how many rounds I observed fired in my working life. In the hundreds of thousands. I never saw a person shoot a 300 win better that a 308 or 6.5. I never saw someone do better with a .40 s&w than 9mm, and I never saw someone perform better in shotgun drills with heavy buckshot loads than light birdshot loads. There were many that were good with high recoil, but they were better with less recoil. As a side note, the guys that did a lot of goose hunting seemed to be the best at recoil management across the board.

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Viking142 said:

None of the rodeos that I have seen have been the result of bullet failure from modern rifle. I have seen some muzzleloader bullet failures but that is a different story. Every rodeo I have seen has been the result of hits in the guts, butts, or legs.

One of my partners is a deep dark timber hunter and has shot around 8 elk at archery range in the timber. He uses a .270 with whatever green box remington or blue box federals that happen to be on sale that year. They have all been no fuss no problems to include facing shots and quartering to shots. In cannont recall any quartering away shots. There was one time a bullet keyholed right on the point of the shoulder. It was laying sideways right against the ribs but did not penetrate the chest cavity. This was in very thick stuff. It was quite apparent the bullet hit some brush and tumbled before hitting the elk. Fortunately this shot broke its shoulder and it fell straight on its face. He walked the 20 steps up to it and shot it in the earhole as it was trying to get up.

I have never seen a centerfire rifle bullet "failure" to amount to anything. I have been in on the elk autopsy's of the following bullets that I can recall:
Core lokt, Fed power shok, swift sciricco, trophy bonded original, trophy bonded tipped, Fed fusion, Barnes original x, Barnes tsx, Nosler BT, Partition, accubond, Hornady sst, Eldx, and probably some I am forgetting. Every elk hit in front of the diaphragm has died very quickly with all of them. Nearly all of them within sight from the shooting location. I have seen quite a few core/jacket seperations with the cup and core bullets, but both pieces made it to the far side and lung soup. On average I would say the cup and cores have been the fastest kills even if there has been seperation.

The most impressive shot I can recall as far as penetration goes, is with a 7-08 at 35 yards facing head on that I mentioned earlier. It penetrated stem to stern with a 140 partition.

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Viking142 said:

None of the Rodeo's I have seen have been the result of bullet fai

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Viking142 said:

Core lokt, Fed power shok, swift sciricco, trophy bonded original, trophy bonded tipped, Fed fusion, Barnes original x, Barnes tsx, Nosler BT, Partition, accubond, Hornady sst, Eldx, and probably some I am forgetting. Every elk hit in front of the diaphragm has died very quickly with all of them.

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dogz said:

Ah...yeah the 6.5 PRC is a better round than the 30-30. That's kind of like asking is the horse and buggy or the F150 better for getting around............

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BigNate said:

I'm guilty of picking the gun based on where we think we're going, or on what my partners are bringing. (Usually my boys)
If they're set up for long range, I'll usually bring a light rifle for close opportunities, or if he's got his 1000 yard gun, and we're in varying terrain I might bring the 338 with weldcores. My bullet choice is based on how much velocity it takes to work well and then limiting my shot to the distance where the velocity has degraded to that level.

I too think a front half shot from nearly any angle is quick death. At least so far. The only bullet that I questioned was a Barnes and it made a very narrow wound all the way through. It died leaking but it probably made it 250 yards at least. Maybe a bit more.

Just wondering how other people look at this dilemma.

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