Why won’t my bolt close?

Remmy700 said:

We are talking about the same thing here. You need truly fireformed cases to set up your FL die correctly and get correct shoulder bump. You can bump once fired brass back a .0015 if you want but what are you bumping it back from? I want my brass back close to SAAMI specs with exception to my base to shoulder number. That is what I want to ensure is only getting push back .0015 from actual real world chamber size so I am working my brass minimally. There are other options for getting this real world number also but I prefer my brass not to chamber such as OP situation and then get my measurement and slowly adjust the die to my liking on bolt close firmness. There are a bunch of ways to do it. We are talking about the same thing though and my method is right, wrong or indifferent but its my way and it works for me.

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+1 on Remmy's post
A. properly set fl dies for min bump are no longer saami spec.
B. Instructions that come with most dies often lead to overworked cases.
C. Always use a different piece of fired brass for every adjustment. Using the same piece over & over as you adjust will eventually get you to desired bump. Most likely, because of springback, the next piece will be overbumped. Measure every piece base to shoulder with a case comparator. Keeping in mind that mfg., lot number, annealing and other brass difference will all affect bump measurement.
My .02,
Randy

In the BR game, we pay very close attention to shoulder bump.

During a match or testing, the slightest difference in feel of the bolt close is never fired into the record target or the test group.

Try it some time, size a couple cases differently, fire them together with cases sized with another method (neck sized vs FL), with few exceptions, they will enlarge the group.

I watched a few of these videos from guys claiming Neck Sizing is dangerous, BULL. I have been reloading since I was 12yo, 65 now. I have never found problem that could be contributed to a PROPERLY NECK SIZED case.

rick523 said:

Not asking for trouble, since I've never had this issue with any of the other 5 calibers I load. Just looking for a reason, since I'm not doing anything different than usual. Load is not compressed. Well I guess I am doing something different now. Full length sizing every time!

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What you have are a tighter chamber and FL resizing is all that is left to do if you want your reloaded ammo, to chamber it's your decision. I've been hand loading for thirty years and when I would neck size only... the load wouldn't chamber closing the bolt.

Ha

rick523 said:

Im shooting a Bergara B14 HMR in the dreaded 6.5 C M. Load is 143 ELDx, 41.5 gr. H4350 CCI BR2 primers, Hornady cases. Seated .015 off the lands. Here's the problem if I neck size a fire formed case the bolt will not close on about half of the rounds. I neck size everything except 223 and have never ran into this. Any ideas, suggestions. Don't really want to FL size if I can keep from it. Thanks!

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I had the same issue with my beloved 7mm mag. My pet 1/2 MOA Elk Rifle. It's a LR keeper. Schneider barrel, tight match chamber, several one shot drop elk kills out to 820 yards. Many in the 5-600 category. After wearing out one barrel (I used the rifle for local monthly LR steel completion at 1100 yards thru a mile) and lots of rounds in between I had the new barrel installed. I never lost a thing in accuracy on barrel #2 but found with neck sizing only, about half the rounds would not allow the bolt to close. Next step was a Forster neck bushing bump die. Bumped the shoulders back .002-.003 and sized the neck only (trimming cases to length,by the way, is important if you are finding your brass close to the limit after firing). Even with the Forster shoulder bump die procedure, the bolt was closing hard. Way to hard for me. Finally, I called Whidden Gun Works (go to You Tube and search Whidden Gun Works and watch his FL resizing / shoulder bump video). I ordered a Whidden FL neck bushing die. I bump the shoulders at .003 and the Neck bushing .002 less than my best loaded 180 Berger rounds. This is the answer that worked best for me! I full length size all my 7 mag fired brass and the bolt closes smoothly and properly every time. Good news? Not a smidge lost in accuracy with this procedure out of this rifle. I ran a batch of once fired brass thru the process yesterday and decided to check the run out on this batch of brass (Norma) after resizing. I was totally thrilled to see the run out at .001 or less on all 50 pieces of brass. The needle on the Sinclair concentricity tool barely moved. I can't say enough good things about the set of Whidden Gun Works dies I have. I'm a fan. They can even make dies for your specific rifle if you supply them brass. They are a tad spendy but you get what you pay for. By the way, I still neck size only for two other fav rifles. A .260 and a .308. They both handle 3-4 neck sizings before a FL sizing is necessary. I think my issue with the 7 mag is a super tight match chamber. Bit tighter than SAMMI specs but handles new and FL sized brass perfectly and shoots incredibly well. I'm a happy camper.

Randy Tidwell said:

In the BR game, we pay very close attention to shoulder bump.

During a match or testing, the slightest difference in feel of the bolt close is never fired into the record target or the test group.

Try it some time, size a couple cases differently, fire them together with cases sized with another method (neck sized vs FL), with few exceptions, they will enlarge the group.

I watched a few of these videos from guys claiming Neck Sizing is dangerous, BULL. I have been reloading since I was 12yo, 65 now. I have never found problem that could be contributed to a PROPERLY NECK SIZED case.

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Like you brother I test everything. And I have done that test several times actually. The problem I see is your first few firings on new brass has varying base to shoulder measurements when just running a neck die. With that neck die you are doing nothing to uniform these cases except for neck diameter. Now these can be further remeidied with actually sorting brass by capacity of coarse but many don't do that. With that varying base to shoulder obviously comes varying case capacities from case to case. Now different story if you are at least just touching shoulder with a body die just to simply uniform as you are do your fireforming which as we know can take several firings. Now after they all are truly fire formed and you are running a body die or bump die and hitting all the shoulders .0015 or so from "true chamber headspace" and then following up with a neck die then of coarse they are all consistent. But this is no different from running a FL bushing die set up properly. Not arguing with you as I respect your reloading practices and from what you post I know you are very good at the reloading game. I do agree that neck sizing has its place in the single shot, BR/F-Class type deals where very little tension is needed etc. etc. But for his certain post from the OP I am assuming this is a hunting rig, or all around rig since he is running ELDx and not ELDm and I would also assume he is mag feeding. And for this reason IMHO this is not one of those situations that simply neck sizing is appropriate. Again just my opinion.

rick523 said:

Im shooting a Bergara B14 HMR in the dreaded 6.5 C M. Load is 143 ELDx, 41.5 gr. H4350 CCI BR2 primers, Hornady cases. Seated .015 off the lands. Here's the problem if I neck size a fire formed case the bolt will not close on about half of the rounds. I neck size everything except 223 and have never ran into this. Any ideas, suggestions. Don't really want to FL size if I can keep from it. Thanks!

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sounds like you need to full length size your cases to bump the shoulder back a couple of thousands ! I have had the same problem and full length sizing and bumping the shoulder back fixed the problem ! I would recommend using lapua brass as they seem to be the most precise of the brass out there !

I like my L.E. Wilson case gauges

IMHO FULL LENGTH SIZE 100% = less chance of irregularities and inconsistencies... makes reloading life sooo much easier, better groups, tighter SD & ES - just elimination of those variables that neck sizing only doesn't address. This is an age old lifetime argument for many.... again just my honest opinion - not supporting any argument - just what works for me.
PS plus I have two 6.5CMS and do many Load Dev of that cartridge for many clients.

Nomad8961 said:

I like my L.E. Wilson case gauges

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You get one of those free with every rifle purchase! Its called your chamber and none of them are alike!

rick523 said:

Not asking for trouble, since I've never had this issue with any of the other 5 calibers I load. Just looking for a reason, since I'm not doing anything different than usual. Load is not compressed. Well I guess I am doing something different now. Full length sizing every time!

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I agree, why not full length size. I do it with everything.

I've had similar issues before. From now on if a rifle does this with new brass I wait to neck size until I've full length sized full power loads twice. (I also only screw the full length die in enough to eliminate hard closure plus 1/8 turn which so far is never fully against shell holder) After that bolt closure after neck sizing is just barely noticeably increased compared to full (1lb more). I then get at least three neck sizes in if not more before needing another full. This also tells ya which your gun prefers. For what it's worth I'm doing all this with Lee equipment (cheap stuff) and have no experience with anything except full length and neck dies. Still, getting 1/4-1/2" groups with custom rifle and 1/2-1" with many factory rifles so I'm happy! Good luck

you have to bump the shoulder back .002 on all reloads.if you neck size only.

Will Gray said:

I neck size everything except my AR ammo. Never have problems with 22-250, 243, 308, 358, 270, 30-06, 300WM, 300RUM, 338EDGE, or 416/300RUM. I make sure the headspace on my rifles is snug up against the GO gauge, full length size the first time and then neck size only after that. No trouble with case length.

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And that has been my experience as well. Up until this rifle.