Long Time Long Ranger
Well-Known Member
Kirby, your not starting a fight. That is exactly what I just said up there on another post talking about 600 yard rifle set ups and 1000 yard set ups. You are dead on the money.
Ultimate Long Range Coyote Rifle
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Long Time Long Ranger
Well-Known Member
Look back there at my suggestions before this velocity talk got started. 264 stw@3435 with a 140 gr .640 BC. 264-300 short mag @3200 and the 240 gibbs with a 107 matchking at 3600. There are others but those came from an awefull lot of experience shooting small stuff in the windy west at long range.
NesikaChad
Well-Known Member
Well, all I know is this works.
Is it a barrel scorcher? Absolutely. Do I care? Not one bit. I have plenty more ready to screw onto it.
I never claimed that it was an efficient way to sling a bullet, but I know it works. The twist rate is matched to the velocity to mitigate spontaneous combustion of the bullet.
Fifty is nuts on regarding BC's vs velocity. 125's aren't the only bullet I shoot from this pig, they just sound the most impressive since they cover a mile in little more than a second.
By and large a 6.5-284 is a tough nut to crack on all fronts.
I've done a large number of long range competitive, tactical, and hunting rifles in a number of calibers and it still reigns around the top for my list of favorites.
Best of luck to the OP and his quest.
Cheers,
Chad
Is it a barrel scorcher? Absolutely. Do I care? Not one bit. I have plenty more ready to screw onto it.
I never claimed that it was an efficient way to sling a bullet, but I know it works. The twist rate is matched to the velocity to mitigate spontaneous combustion of the bullet.
Fifty is nuts on regarding BC's vs velocity. 125's aren't the only bullet I shoot from this pig, they just sound the most impressive since they cover a mile in little more than a second.
By and large a 6.5-284 is a tough nut to crack on all fronts.
I've done a large number of long range competitive, tactical, and hunting rifles in a number of calibers and it still reigns around the top for my list of favorites.
Best of luck to the OP and his quest.
Cheers,
Chad
6mm Shooter
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2007
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Chad which bullet do you use out of the 6.5-284 for shooting varmints?
NesikaChad
Well-Known Member
In all honesty, I've never vermin hunted with a 6.5-284. I have two dedicated varmint rifles, my 22-250 Rem and my 300-338LM. Well, my M-4 too, but that's for when they legalize road hunting Jacks in SD. (someday. . .)
The 6.5 I own I use as a deer rifle. That being said the 140 grain Honady SST bullets are quite brutal to an organ cavity and accuracy is excellent.
55 grains of short cut H4831 stuffed in a Norma/Lapua case with a GM210 primer and the bullet jammin the lands around .005" seems to shoot real well from my 1-8ROT Krieger (4 groove) barreled Nesika V action. Sub 1/3moa groups (5 shot). Velocity hovers right around 3100fps.
I've been to a number of NRA 1K any/any matches to include the US Nationals. The 6.5-284 has always done well. lately it seems more and more stoked up 6mm's are showing up on the scene too, but the 6.5 still holds its own.
If you ever have the opportunity, get behind a team scope on a firing line and watch the trace of a 308 and then observe a 6.5. It's a pretty impressive difference. The 6.5 will rise about half the elevation a 308 does while in its track to the target. Very flat shooting.
As far as vermin bullets go:
I speculate that if the chamber is cut for it and the twist is right, any thin jacketed bullet in the 140 weight class is going to work well. The rotational speeds of the bullet are quite high (around 290,000 rpm) and it's not going to take much to get that to come apart and make a mess of a critter. Especially a Yote'.
Hope this helped.
Chad
The 6.5 I own I use as a deer rifle. That being said the 140 grain Honady SST bullets are quite brutal to an organ cavity and accuracy is excellent.
55 grains of short cut H4831 stuffed in a Norma/Lapua case with a GM210 primer and the bullet jammin the lands around .005" seems to shoot real well from my 1-8ROT Krieger (4 groove) barreled Nesika V action. Sub 1/3moa groups (5 shot). Velocity hovers right around 3100fps.
I've been to a number of NRA 1K any/any matches to include the US Nationals. The 6.5-284 has always done well. lately it seems more and more stoked up 6mm's are showing up on the scene too, but the 6.5 still holds its own.
If you ever have the opportunity, get behind a team scope on a firing line and watch the trace of a 308 and then observe a 6.5. It's a pretty impressive difference. The 6.5 will rise about half the elevation a 308 does while in its track to the target. Very flat shooting.
As far as vermin bullets go:
I speculate that if the chamber is cut for it and the twist is right, any thin jacketed bullet in the 140 weight class is going to work well. The rotational speeds of the bullet are quite high (around 290,000 rpm) and it's not going to take much to get that to come apart and make a mess of a critter. Especially a Yote'.
Hope this helped.
Chad
Long Time Long Ranger
Well-Known Member
Nesika, thanks for coming back in here. I wasn't questioning you or getting on to you in any way. I just wanted to know what your set up was since I had trouble with my 30-378 shooting light bullets fast. A lot of them blew all to heck. I can tell you I like your lapua much better than the 378 case for the 30 cal. Barrels don't last very long with the 378 case necked to 30. I built and owned both and the 30-338 lapua improved I did was the best of the big 30's and I did them all. It had velocity right there with the 378 case but was easier on barrels and they were easier to work up accurate loads for. I only have the ultramags now though after selling the others.
NesikaChad
Well-Known Member
No worries or hurt egos/feelings here.
Sounds to me like you need another one though!!
I enjoy shooting this rifle. It makes babies cry. Women stricken with panic run aimlessly in the streets, (hopefully neked) and small furry critters vaporize in sync to Disney soundtracks.
I call it "Mr. Horsepower".
Sounds to me like you need another one though!!
I enjoy shooting this rifle. It makes babies cry. Women stricken with panic run aimlessly in the streets, (hopefully neked) and small furry critters vaporize in sync to Disney soundtracks.
I call it "Mr. Horsepower".
Long Time Long Ranger
Well-Known Member
Here is what I was saying concerning a 600 yard rifle and a 1000 yard rifle set up pertaining to big game. A hunter has to make the best determination as to where the highest percetage of shots are going to be to make the proper rifle choice. Say here for coyotes and it would apply to deer elk just the same. I can't speak for Kirby but I think this is what he was getting at to. If most times your shots at coyotes are fast and inside of 600 yards you want a super flat shooting rifle that gets there in a hurry with a trajectory you can stay on easily with mil dots and no time for click adjustments. The best choices are the over 4000 fps speed burners mentioned earlier. All those rounds are severely affected beyond 600 yards by gravity and wind. Gravity is no problem to adjust for but wind is the hardest thing you have to do because it is always unstable,variable and usually comes down to a best guess with a lot of experience to be succesful. Beyong 600 yards the big heavy BC bullets take out much more of the unpridictable variable in long range shooting so that is why you see Kirby building huge cases to launch big bullets at far away targets and also why I do the same. With the 125 30-338 going 4300 fps and my 264 stw going 3335 fps there is 21 inches less wind drift at a 1000 yards in only a 10 mph breeze with the 264 stw. 10 mph ain't much out here in Wyoming. So a hunter has got to decide where most of his shots will be and make the proper choice when building a hunting rifle. I have rifles built for both depending on the type hunt I am goiing on. My big game rifles are some speed burners that I can shoot fast and stay on target with mil dots out to 700 or so yards. Some are long rangers with big slower moving high BC bullets that run off and leave my speed burners beyond 700 yards but are a liability inside of 700 because I must use my clicks and lose many shot opportunities at the closer ranges because I am not as fast on target. Hope some of this makes since and helps.
NesikaChad
Well-Known Member
Here's one to try on.
In 2004 I built a 300 RUM for a gent by the Name of Dan Kinneman. It had a 34" long Kreiger on it and was quite honestly a "crew served single shot bolt gun."
Dan made the cover of Small caliber news a year or two later with a picture of him, his rifle, a dead prairie dog, and a piece of cardboard that read: "2552 yards".
Prairie dogs are a lot smaller than coyotes.
What ever you end up with, I wish you the best and good luck.
Chad
In 2004 I built a 300 RUM for a gent by the Name of Dan Kinneman. It had a 34" long Kreiger on it and was quite honestly a "crew served single shot bolt gun."
Dan made the cover of Small caliber news a year or two later with a picture of him, his rifle, a dead prairie dog, and a piece of cardboard that read: "2552 yards".
Prairie dogs are a lot smaller than coyotes.
What ever you end up with, I wish you the best and good luck.
Chad
motivationteam
Member
I have learned a tremendous amount from all the input on this topic. Thanks to everyone that shared their thoughts. I think the one thing I learned the most is that it is not bullet drop but wind drift that is the most critical thing to consider. Drop is much more predictible that wind drift and wind drift is the the variable that is always changing. Before I was more concerned with bullet drop than I was with wind drift and now my thinking has changed. I live in Idaho and hunt in the desert where there is usually wind blowing.
tbeasley
Well-Known Member
NesikaChad
I remember that issue, they also had to build a custom tapered scope rail for the NF scope.
For the Yote Hunting, I too hunt coyotes and pigs here in Texas, (seen one yote walking along the Hwy. today at 10:00am still 32F.) And I choose to use a 7mm-300wsm. simply put its a 7wsm just using 270 or 300wsm brass for the longer necks. I'm holding my aim 0-230yds put on dog/hog and shoot and dead is dead can be using 140 Accubonds. Spotlighting at night, you don't have time to judge distance and besides its harder for me to judge at night.
I would think the big 7's would be great for the ride. Launching 168 Bergers or 180's would get the job done and then some.
definitaly look into the 7mm's
hope this helps some from one varmint hunter to the next..
-tbeasley
I remember that issue, they also had to build a custom tapered scope rail for the NF scope.
For the Yote Hunting, I too hunt coyotes and pigs here in Texas, (seen one yote walking along the Hwy. today at 10:00am still 32F.) And I choose to use a 7mm-300wsm. simply put its a 7wsm just using 270 or 300wsm brass for the longer necks. I'm holding my aim 0-230yds put on dog/hog and shoot and dead is dead can be using 140 Accubonds. Spotlighting at night, you don't have time to judge distance and besides its harder for me to judge at night.
I would think the big 7's would be great for the ride. Launching 168 Bergers or 180's would get the job done and then some.
definitaly look into the 7mm's
hope this helps some from one varmint hunter to the next..
-tbeasley
* a 6.5-284** with a high bc bullet ; 139 lapua is what i shoot. or a 7mm mag and a either a 168 or a 180 berger. then practice . you will find out how far is far. remington* 700 or neskica action, krieger barrel ; 8.5X25 leup mk 4.
Long Time Long Ranger
Well-Known Member
I thought about this some today because the question is a dang good one. You are really looking for the best rifle that can shoot fast and flat and still give you the best chance at a 1000 yard coyote. In other words the best all around gun for varmints. I have the fastest shooting wildcats in every caliber in my arsenal and thinking your situation what would I choose. First I looked at every caliber considering noise, recoil, cost to shoot a lot at varmints and a lot of other things. Basically as you go up and down the calibers equal ballistic coefficients max out at about the same velocity no matter which caliber you choose. There are a few in there that can give you a little edge in 6mm, 264 and 338. You don't need a big caliber to kill coyotes and the smaller calibers are the easiest to load for, cheapest to shoot with little recoil and noise. And on average the most accurate. The hot 22 cals I eliminated because not enough BC/velocity ratio for what you need out to a thousand.
After all was considered I narrowed it down to 6mm and 264. Then I looked at the hottest 6mm 's and 264's available. The hottest 264 I have done is the 264 STW. Any bigger and just not much improvement. I think that size case about max's out the 264. It shoots a 140 grain bullet 3435 fps and a 120 BT right at 3700 fps. This would do the trick but you would probably want a brake on it and it would be expensive to reload. I couldn't see shooting this big a gun in your situation.
Then I looked at the hottest 6mm rifles I have ever done. The blown out 30-06 case is about where the 6mm maxes out. I tried the 280 case with the JRS design with no improvement. The 240 gibbs is the fastest 6mm I have ever done that is extremely accurate shooting the 107 matchking over 3500 fps. It is cheap and easy to reload for with little recoil and noise compared to the larger calibers. It has super flat trajectory up close making all those shots easy plus the ability to easily get out to 1000 yards. Mine shoots exceptional groups at 1000 yards with the 107 matchking.
If I were going out in the morning to do what you do I would pick up my 240 Gibbs above all others. It offers the best BC/velocity ratio of anything I looked at that made a sensible low cost easily loaded varmint round.
After all was considered I narrowed it down to 6mm and 264. Then I looked at the hottest 6mm 's and 264's available. The hottest 264 I have done is the 264 STW. Any bigger and just not much improvement. I think that size case about max's out the 264. It shoots a 140 grain bullet 3435 fps and a 120 BT right at 3700 fps. This would do the trick but you would probably want a brake on it and it would be expensive to reload. I couldn't see shooting this big a gun in your situation.
Then I looked at the hottest 6mm rifles I have ever done. The blown out 30-06 case is about where the 6mm maxes out. I tried the 280 case with the JRS design with no improvement. The 240 gibbs is the fastest 6mm I have ever done that is extremely accurate shooting the 107 matchking over 3500 fps. It is cheap and easy to reload for with little recoil and noise compared to the larger calibers. It has super flat trajectory up close making all those shots easy plus the ability to easily get out to 1000 yards. Mine shoots exceptional groups at 1000 yards with the 107 matchking.
If I were going out in the morning to do what you do I would pick up my 240 Gibbs above all others. It offers the best BC/velocity ratio of anything I looked at that made a sensible low cost easily loaded varmint round.
NesikaChad
Well-Known Member
There is another.
Garret Caldwell, a zipperhead that worked for me at Nesika, ginned up a cartridge originally called the 240-4000. the name says it all basically. 6mm projectile at 4000fps.
I started calling it the 240 Blowtorch after seeing what it did to barrels. Make no mistake though, this biche was ****ed the _uck off when it came to a prairie dog town.
I can't quite recall what the parent case was/is, but I've shot him an email and David Kiff to get the low down on it. Been about 5 years since I messed with one.
Just another thing to consider in the endless pool of hyper velocity cartridges.
Garret Caldwell, a zipperhead that worked for me at Nesika, ginned up a cartridge originally called the 240-4000. the name says it all basically. 6mm projectile at 4000fps.
I started calling it the 240 Blowtorch after seeing what it did to barrels. Make no mistake though, this biche was ****ed the _uck off when it came to a prairie dog town.
I can't quite recall what the parent case was/is, but I've shot him an email and David Kiff to get the low down on it. Been about 5 years since I messed with one.
Just another thing to consider in the endless pool of hyper velocity cartridges.
