Muddyboots
Well-Known Member
Sure keep reminding me you are younger than me! Only in calendar years!
Accuracy issues - who or what is to blame?
- Thread starter GSPRunner
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
rewiltshire
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2012
- Messages
- 198
I have a 'golfer' friend that says it better to carry two putters in you golf bag. That way if you miss the putt you can always say "I know I should have used the other putter"
John Klingenberg
Well-Known Member
I used to think everyone should/could shoot tiny groups. I was a little obsessive I guess. Then I worked at a range in my spare time! Holy Jesus I had to learn humble tolerance. Some folks are happy with 3,6,9 moa, some are mad they cant hit a dime with that sewer pipe 88 mauser. But most are thrilled with 1.5 MOA. Not me. If I get or build a rifle that wont shoot 1/2 moa it gets worked on or sold. I never question me and my ability because the whole package has to work together. I know when I'm not on my game and may have to adjust my approach. I have a measure of confidence that if I've done what I can then the rifle isnt working for me. Sometimes I may put in a lot of shooting to prove it worthy or unworthy.
rewiltshire
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2012
- Messages
- 198
Shooting 1/4-1/2 MOA from a bench under ideal conditions is a lot different that shooting in the field under whatever conditions. I sight my rifles in at the range from a bench with rest just to make sure it is capable of what I need for hunting. But once in the field there are so many different conditions that you didn't think about. You don't always have the time to set yourself up as you would on a bench.
I recently decided that chasing the tiniest group was costing me a butt load of money and time. I set up a range on a friends property close to my house with targets from 100 to 970. Before each hunt I would go to the range and check zero at 200 then shoot the gauntlet from 300 to 970, all target being 12 x 12 steel plates and the 970 being a 20 x 30 plate. Center mass hits on each target confirmed my rifle was on, my loads were good and I was ready to hunt. My buddy has since sold the property so my private shooting paradise has gone away but my local range still allows me shoot from 200 to 600 on steel and it a great way to get a warm fuzzy feeling about your hunting setup. If your shooting paper or competition than this obviously will not work for you but it sure has worked for me and my friends and it has saved me a bunch of money on time and components.
Accuracy is about expectations......it's either capable or it's not.
My expectations for my Fclass rifle is way different than my hunting rifle.....as it should be. Trying to compare the two is just silly
A 1/2moa hunting rifle for 3-5shots in good conditions at 1k is exceptional IMO.
My expectations for my Fclass rifle is way different than my hunting rifle.....as it should be. Trying to compare the two is just silly
A 1/2moa hunting rifle for 3-5shots in good conditions at 1k is exceptional IMO.
Lol this was me 15 years ago with factory rifles that I was reloading for expecting magical unicorn one hole groups from equipment that wasn't capable of it. Once I learned how to actually find a node and adjust CBTO to tighten groups and purchased a full custom rifle I was amazed at how much easier it was to find the precision I was after even without doing all the mundane things I hated like turning necks.
As I get older the biggest thing for me in shooting good groups is having enough magnification to clearly see the target and get a good, repeatable hold. Many of my hunting guns carry 9-10 power optics because down here at dark thirty you cant use any more power. It becomes a real challenge shooting groups at 300 on our private range. You wind up framing the target. Most of my newer rifles sport at least 16 power optics.
nealm66
Well-Known Member
It's definitely one of the first thing I wonder about when I see posts about guys having problems getting an unknown rifle to shoot. It would be really cool to have these guys lineup behind 10 different rifles that are easily .5 and see how many groups it takes before they actually shoot a .5 group on all 10. It's definitely not a macho thing. I used to think it would help to have a big shoulder to absorb the recoil but it's more about consistency and practice. I really enjoy doing load work up and I help a few friends out and to me, having the confidence in my ability is the most important part of any of the other reloading steps. I've tried a few times to coach guys and I'm no good at it. I've recently been asked to help a friend achieve the mile and I was done with load work in one trip. He's asked me to help with technique and I'll definitely try but I think there's some mental aspects and muscle memory that just can't be taught
choprzrul
Well-Known Member
A **** poor rifle with crappy ammo, a shooter standing up shooting with no rest, in the wind, and an unknown distance.....if the animal bolts at the last second it may very well run into the bullet. And behold, that shooter will proclaim all over the internet that he made a perfect shot at 900 yards!!
Accidents can and will happen with little or no notice....
Accidents can and will happen with little or no notice....
Some guys ( often youngn's ) can shoot well with their low power mid prices optics but most .250 shooters use high quality and high power optics and uniform ammo.
to achieve it .
Well ya know I have to put in my 2 cents too. I bought my first Tikka T3x used. The store I was working at, at that time took it in on trade for a Savage. The guy trading it in stated that it was the most inaccurate rifle he had ever owned. Since he made that statement he didn't get a good price for the trade in, which was obviously a defective rifle. In my over 52 years as a marksmanship instructor there have been many times that someone blamed the rifle, yet I could take the rifle out of their hands and shoot good groups with it right in front of them. Knowing Tikka's reputation I purchased the rifle, again at a bargain price. I put a Vortex Diamondback Tactical 6 x 24 x 50 on it and took it to the range. At 25 yards it shot a 3 shot group all touching about 4 inches high and 3 inches left. Made the adjustments and moved over to the 100 yard range. The first group at 100 yards was still high but the windage was right on, this group was a bit larger at 0.75 MOA. Adjusted again and the next goup was a duplicate of the previous one. The point to be made is that most modern rifles are much better than the person behind the trigger. The Tikka proved that in volumes. I was using Sig Sauer Elite 165 gr 30-06 ammo, which I have tried unsuccessfully to duplicate the performance with hand loads. Best I have been able to do is 0.85 MOA using Nosler Partitions which is still very good. I am always hearing about people worrying about why their rifle/ammo is shooting nice groups with 1 shot out of 5 being a flier. Well people that flier is yet another example of the person behind the trigger failing to pull of a perfect shot and not ready to admit it was their fault. All of us do it, myself included. To my way of thinking if it's only one flier out of five then the chances are going to be that it will still result in a dead deer, elk or whatever large animal you are shooting at, Prairie Dogs might be an issue, but that is another discussion entirely.
I bought a Remington 700 Police .308 Winchester from a guy who said it "wouldn't shoot". He said his round count was about 300 rounds and he just couldn't make it shoot under 2" so I got it from him at a super good price. I can't comment on what his shooting skills were because those I didn't observe, nor his ammo choices. Once I had the rifle in hand I of course tossed the factory trigger and replaced it with a Timney. As I was doing this, I figured out that the rifle probably hadn't been cleaned for those 300 rounds. After two days of cleaning, including foam, brushing and J-B, I took the rifle out with some Hornady Match Ammo and some 165 grain Nosler partition handloads. The rifle shot the match ammo into 1/2 inch at 100 yards and the partition load in 3/4 inch. In this case, maintenance of the rifle appeared to be what caused the claim of it being inaccurate. There are tons of components to accuracy, aren't there?
