600yards and in, how important are bubble levels?

[Bigeclipse]

I can tell you one thing in my opinion you can't to better than 10" at 600 you got no business shooting that far at an animal.

I have no problem hitting plates at 600 I'm just curious how much canting a rifle might be hurting my groups at that distance or if it really isnt.

 

[L.Sherm]

The best way to find out is test for yourself, then you will know.
It just might be eye opening.

 

[ButterBean]

I have no problem hitting plates at 600 I'm just curious how much canting a rifle might be hurting my groups at that distance or if it really isnt.

Canted shots will go low and in the direction of the cant, the farther the shot it just keeps multiplying

 

[257Tony]

The question is do you need it 600 yards and under. In your scenario you missed your wind call that caused a bad hit, that happens anytime you missed your wind call.

I agree levels are more important when you get in long distances like 1K

Go do some real word testing shoot at 5- 600 then cant your gun a little and shoot at 600 see if you still hit a 10 inch gone. I've done it, I know a little can't won't affect you making a kill shot. If I was trying to win a 600 yard match it would be more important to hit a 4 inch circle rather than a Heart/lung shot on a deer

The real question is why purposely add in error to any long range shot? Especially when that error is so easily removed. Also, lots of game animals don't have a 10" vital area, Coues Deer off the top of my head are more like 6-8", that means an error of 3-4" is enough to cause a bad hit. A canted rifle at 600 is easily more than 3-4".

 

[257Tony]

Really,...... I'll just keep guessing,

Why? A $30 level takes ALL the guess work out of it.

 

[Plinker147]

I'm 7 for 7 on coues deer shots from 450-650 with no levels so.............

Not saying a level isn't a good and useful tool, just saying it isn't a necessary item at the ranges the OP asked.

 

[ButterBean]

Why? A $30 level takes ALL the guess work out of it.

I've got several and I don't care for them, I do ok with my guess work, I'm just glad to know that your the authority on this subject,

 

[ButterBean]

I'm 7 for 7 on coues deer shots from 450-650 with no levels so.............

Not saying a level isn't a good and useful tool, just saying it isn't a necessary item at the ranges the OP asked.

Good guess work Brother

 

[1894C]

Any time you dial a scope for elevation, you need some way of making sure it's level/plumb. Even at 600, you add in being off level, and maybe missing your wind call a little, it's easily enough to cause a bad hit. Being an accurate long range hunter is all about removing as many variables as possible, using a bubble level is one way to completely remove that particular variable. I don't care how good you think your eye is, or how much "muscle memory" you have, you get into the mountains where nothing is plumb or level, you're just guessing.

This video does a great job of demonstrating why you need one.

Why Every Rifle Needs an Anti Cant Bubble Level - YouTube

+1. Optical illusions can throw you for a loop trust the bubble

 

[ButterBean]

The real question is why purposely add in error to any long range shot? Especially when that error is so easily removed. Also, lots of game animals don't have a 10" vital area, Coues Deer off the top of my head are more like 6-8", that means an error of 3-4" is enough to cause a bad hit. A canted rifle at 600 is easily more than 3-4".

I mean no offense but Your talking blind now, how much of a cant equals 3-4 inches@ 600 ???????, your gun ? The OP's gun? My Gun????????? Scope height and everything else comes into play here,

 

[ButterBean]

All apologies to the OP, as has been said, they can be very useful if you are in doubt , I personally have no trouble knowing when I'm off plumb,

 

[Mram10us]

OP, what part of the country are you in and what type of terrain are you hunting. Here in the mountains, it can be very hard to know what plumb is. The trees do not all grow straight up. I have installed cheapo bubble levels for all my friends and they help a lot. Granted, that is for 1000 yard practice. 600 doesn't cause much issue when canted, but it still is a good habit to add it into your crosscheck. 257tony is right when he said "it takes the guess work out". Best of luck

 

[Buster Hemlock]

Alright so here is something for guys to think on and research and decide for themselves from there. It's commonly accepted that the average person will notice if something is not square or straight around 3 degrees. So using 2 degrees which is under what most people can tell is out of alignment or square I ran some numbers on my 7 SAUM 175 Berger EH, 2957 FPS, 8 twist, 2.2" bore to sight height, altitude sea level. 5 mph left to right wind At 600 yards:
-2* cant -65.4" drop wind 6.5"
0* cant -65.2" drop wind 9.6"
+2* cant -64.9" drop wind 12.6"

Not to mention you will naturally try and square your crosshairs to what you believe is level in your sight picture. Take it as you will but I'll keep using bubble levels religiously.

Edited to add this is with a 5 mph left to right wind and spin drift.

 

[ButterBean]

Alright so here is something for guys to think on and research and decide for themselves from there. It's commonly accepted that the average person will notice if something is not square or straight around 3 degrees. So using 2 degrees which is under what most people can tell is out of alignment or square I ran some numbers on my 7 SAUM 175 Berger EH, 2957 FPS, 8 twist, 2.2" bore to sight height, altitude sea level. At 600 yards:
-2* cant -65.4" drop wind 6.5"
0* cant -65.2" drop wind 9.6"
+2* cant -64.9" drop wind 12.6"

Not to mention you will naturally try and square your crosshairs to what you believe is level in your sight picture. Take it as you will but I'll keep using bubble levels religiously.

Thank you for those figures