Build a rifle for sheep or bears?

[Tim Dunfee]

...but the revolver you can just pull the trigger, no safeties or jamming.

Revolvers do funny things too, in panic situations.

My first ccw was a revolver because what can go wrong, right? I ran through some supervised drills not long after I started carrying and I found out that short stroking the trigger causes the action to seize. I thought the gun was malfunctioning. Took me a minute to figure out that it was operator error.

Know—KNOW—the weapon (and ammunition) you carry. Have a great hunt!

 

[Triggerhead Ed]

Savage brush hunter in 338WM
With scope 8 1/2 lbs
250gr ELD bullets good to 500+ yards

 

[KyCarl]

I'm skeptical about noise scaring bears! I just saw a fishing show with 2 guys fishing
and a camera crew and soundman like 6 guys! Talking and laughing and those bears
didn't give one hoot! They just looked at them and didn't move. The fishermen went elsewhere!

 

[Gcan]

Mommy Grizzly Bear chasing a male Black Bear up a tree!
How fast she is! (How fast do we have to be?)
Then she climbs down -- but then rushes back up to nip him.
(She nips him at 4:50 mark.)
CLICK ON: Watch this video on YouTube.

That video says it all. If you are in bear country and you miss the signs or are just unlucky, the odds are you won't know a bear is attacking or stalking you. When a bear, cat, moose, elk or hog, etc. decides to come, they are coming to kill you. A bear might start its run at you from 100 yards away. That is your best case because they can also start their run from 15-feet away. When you first see the bear it's 1-3 seconds away. If you are facing the bear it might pull up short for a second. Bear spray means the bear might have its eyes closed when it kills you. If you run it will not stop.

You hear a sound and by the time it registers what that sound is that animal is coming at 25mph on a string for you. It's head is moving up and down 2' every 1/4 second. Most likley your scope is set @ 12x. The bear is jumping logs or coming up or downhill or all of them. And if you are shooting a 6.5, 270, or some other caliber-of-the-moment you are probably going to die, if you are lucky. You are going to get one shot. If you want two, you better do real damage with the first one.

This all sounds dramatic but if you are thinking of, or planning for the possibility of a bear encounter, then knowing the likley mechanics of one will help you choose a caliber. Don't be fooled by Fps/ftlbs. Big bullets stop big things. Period. Before Africa I snap-shot balloons at 10-30 feet from the low gun carry position. That will put it in perspective for you. Every miss is: DEAD. Big 30 to 375.

 

[FIGJAM]

This is pretty interesting.

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/de...s-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz5iWhs5WJ9

After doing a ton of research on this subject since I hunt in grizzly territory as well, I am convinced a handgun is the way to go when we are talking close encounters and something closing ground at an extremely fast rate. Even if it knocks you over or is Mauling you, you can still keep pulling the trigger on a handgun. A bolt rifle you may get one shot, and if the bear is on top of you, it is useless. I decided a few years ago if I was ever charged I would be dropping my rifle and drawing the handgun - this is something you can practice by the way and become proficient at.

I think we have to differentiate between the optimal weapon for a grizzly hunt and the optimal weapon for a close quarters self defense engagement with a grizzly, which is what it will likely be.

 

[theosmithjr]

Bear Attack, Grizzly Bear Attack, Polar Bear Attack Compilation

Those COMMIE RUSKIES got the Hell outta Dodge once that bear got ****ed. Unreal how strong they are. From a push up position he almost rolled that SUV. Made short work of that tire he snapped. Ida HAULED *** TOO when he charged! Next stop, the OUTHOUSE!
Theosmithjr

 

[Tex_Hunter]

I'm a little late to the party, but here's my $0.02

Buy/build the rifle you will use the most. The cost of a full build seems foolish for a one time outing unless you will use it a lot more down the road.

If you are worried about bears go to your local cop shop and see if they have any used Remmy/Mossberg LE shotguns traded in by the local PD. Those can usually be had for ~$200 or so. change out whatever is worn, cerakote it, add ghost rings, and run it in some sort of ready sling with a tube full of 3" magnum slugs while hiking. If you have to use your rifle or if you are working on something like cleaning a recent kill, pass the shotgun to your buddy/guide and have them look out for bears. My concern with using a scoped rifle for bear defense is that it really isnt that great for the types of bear encounters where you get jumped at close range.

 

[Orange Dust]

My $.02 having carried both a handgun and a rifle at the same time a bunch. If you need to shoot in a hurry, you will use whatever is in your hands. If in thick cover, you will most likely be holding the rifle, and not have it slung. If the rifle is slung, or a few feet away for some reason, the handgun is quicker. If you want to carry a handgun and a rifle both, you will be carrying the weight of a rifle adequate for bears. Since trouble always comes when you least expect it, you might want to carry both. In that case I would choose a light semi auto in 10MM or 460 Rowland, leaning more on a double stack 10 with heavy cast bullets.

 

[Tikkamike]

If you are just planning to buy it before the hunt and wear it without much practice i would take the front sight off so it wont hurt as much when a grizz shoves it up your ---

this about made my spit coffee out my nose

 

[IdahoCTD]

I would build a short barrel 300wsm on a Ti action. I'm guessing your headed to the unlimited units in MT. I'm headed to Kodiak for deer this fall and will probably take the 20" barrel 300wsm I have the parts laying around for. It's getting made for when my suppressor gets out of jail. The barrel started as a #3 Bartlein that I recontoured a bit and it weighs 2lb 12oz as a blank and will probably finish at 2 1/2lbs. With a Ti brake it will be pretty light when done. I'll shoot 215's in it for normal hunting and have some 180gr Accubonds in it when in the brush. You could also do the 375 Ruger from your other thread in a light weight rifle.

 

[RH300UM]

I would build a short barrel 300wsm on a Ti action. I'm guessing your headed to the unlimited units in MT. I'm headed to Kodiak for deer this fall and will probably take the 20" barrel 300wsm I have the parts laying around for. It's getting made for when my suppressor gets out of jail. The barrel started as a #3 Bartlein that I recontoured a bit and it weighs 2lb 12oz as a blank and will probably finish at 2 1/2lbs. With a Ti brake it will be pretty light when done. I'll shoot 215's in it for normal hunting and have some 180gr Accubonds in it when in the brush. You could also do the 375 Ruger from your other thread in a light weight rifle.

After seeing with my own eyes the multiple failures of accubonds on Alaskan game there is no way I would use one for bear country as a expected bear stopper. We have a zip lock bag with Nosler bullet failures in it. By failures I mean lack of penetration. Expand way to fast.
A couple examples. Hunter shoots a arctic grizzly 10 times with 7 mag. With 160 accubonds. Ranges from 40 yards to 80 yards.
Final fatal shot was in the throat as it stood up to look over the willows.
Skinning the bear showed the bullets had only gone in 3-4 inches and stopped. None making it to the vitals.
Another example last year moose hunter using a 300 rum and 200 grain accubonds. Shot bull 3 times. Range 75 yards. 2 shots where bad shot placement. Very far back. Those 2 were pass through shots.
The 3rd shot hit square in the front shoulder. Bull goes down but is still alive. We approach the bull carefully to get a lethal shot in it. At 10 yards hunter shoots bull in the base of the neck. Bull finally dies. Dressing the bull out reveals that the shoulder shot completely fragmented the bullet. Penetration was nowhere near being fatal. The neck shot showed the bullet only going 3 inches in and stopping.

There are many more examples like this. When hunters ask what bullet to shoot Nosler is not one of those

 

[Alibiiv]

I've never hunted grizzly bear and probably never will unless I hit the lottery and someone develops a miracle drug that will repair my injured back and legs. I do however black bear hunt and carry enough gun to get the job done; 35 Whelen or .358 Winchester. If I were to go grizzly hunting I'd be carrying nothing less than a .338WinMag or one of the .375 guide guns, or something along that line for the hunt. And.....I am smart enough and do learn from others.

Now I get a bit riled up when I read all about the 6.5's with bullets that are promising or show promise! I'd like to suggest that instead of asking a forum that is all about Long Range Hunting, perhaps you might want to go ask some of hunters who have been mauled or injured by a grizzly bear instead!

I live in a little, small town in Rhode Island, so what would a small town ole guy know about bear hunting. There is a group here in town and that goes to Alaska every year; a drop camp where they stay for a week or two. I hunt and shoot all of the time and was curious about what caliber rifle to hunt grizzly. I saw one of the hunters and asked what he was hunting grizzly with. The hunter told me that he was using a .300WinMag.. My next question was, "Isn't that a little light for grizzly?" The reply was, "Oh no that's more than enough to drop a grizzly, my father has been using one for years!" Many years later we heard that one of the hunters had been mauled by a grizzly and he was in serious condition in an Alaskan hospital. Remember this is a small town, the hunters were all respected members of our community. Months after his injuries I was able to speak with the hunter. He told me that after shooting the grizzly, he waited about 90 minutes and he and the group he was hunting started tracking the bear. He said that all of a sudden the bear charged at him from the alders, he was able to get one shot off at close range and when he attempted to load another round his rifle jammed, the bear was upon him and bit the end of his barrel tearing the rifle from his hands. The mauling went on for some time during which he was mauled on his stomach, buttocks and head. The other hunters were afraid to shoot the bear while it was attacking because they feared hitting him. The hunter was in a tent being attended by his companions for three days because the weather prevented any kind of rescue. Eventually he was liter carried 3 miles over tough terrain to a helicopter.

The rifle that the hunter was using was a very accurate, Browning in .300WinMag. When the hunter tried to reload for the second shot, he tugged so hard on the bolt that the extractor failed, and it ripped through the base of the casing. That left a chamber with a fired round in it, the next round jammed up between the spent casing, magazine follower and the bolt. Now when the hunters go up for their annual hunt, all four hunters are carrying controlled feed, ".338 Winchesters". Oh and the hunter went back the next year to the area where the incident took place and found the remains of the bear that had mauled him. When I asked him how he knew that it was the same bear, he said he knew because the teeth marks matched those in his head; and, he does have two large scars there to prove it. My thoughts on a handgun are that I'd rather rely on my rifle to get the job, and that if I am into my handgun then I am in real trouble. And....I always do carry a Glock20, 10mm when bear hunting.

So if the OP wants to take the 6.5 with bullets that have promise have at it; however I suggest that he talks with someone who has actually been there and done it before making a choice. Personally I'd rather be carrying something that I was confident in than asking myself, when the ---t hits the fan, if I was carrying enough gun to get the job done!!

 

[ronstone09]

So I go back and forth, I'm looking at hunting sheep in an area that is crawling with Grizzly, it's also an area that had a reputation as challenging to access, I have my gear list and I'm working in it and it's naturally ultra lite but then I come to the rifle!
I had a rifle planned out on paper that would be on the light side of stupid and probably chambered in a 6.5 SS, awesome on paper till I started thinking about the inevitable run in with bears, I don't like the idea of standing there with a 5 lb 6.5 with a bear deciding how badly my being there is offending him.
I have zero intention of putting my life on a can of bear spray, ya, we'll be packing it but really I'm putting a big hole in something if it comes to it, the last guy locally that got killed blew a whole can into the bear and he died and the bear had spray all over it when they killed it!!
Another guy I know of ran out of spray by the time he made it to the truck, he sprayed the bear, got thrashed, made it a ways and the bear kept coming back for more as he hiked out, he lived but was messed up!
So to the question, do I build an ultra lite sheep rifle and then carry a Ruger Alaskan in 454 OR build an 8-9 lb 300 of some kind and pack just that?

you cant go wrong with a .338 win ! if you reload you can go fast at 210 grains and for bears the 250 will anchor him !

 

[ronstone09]

Tag. I'm hunting Black bears in MT this spring in areas known for grizz. I'm packing my .300WM with 181 hammer hunters at 3060fps. But I'm worried about if I should be wearing a 44 mag and bear spray too. I'll have spray for sure but I'd have to buy another sidearm bigger than my Sig 9mm.

believe me the 44 wont do much good unless youre an expert as bears can close on you with a blink of your eye ! i would use a bullet out of the 300 that you can stop a bear with !