X-bolt eclipse hunter 25-06 or 6.5 Creedmoor

[Barrelnut]

Well, known quite a few game wardens and never once been asked what type of ammo I'm using. Pretty sure a JHP or BTHP is not against the rules.

Jesus... Never said JHP or BTHP weren't. Guy at Blackjack who sent you your one bullet, sent you a PRERELEASE DEMO that had a HP much in the same fashion as a Berger. He then stated that the production bullets we're not like that and that they had a closed tip. So they are non-mushrooming. Alabama rules say only mushrooming bullets are allowed. Don't give a flip how or what you hunt with. Just thankful you don't do it in my state.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Jesus... Never said JHP or BTHP weren't. Guy at Blackjack who sent you your one bullet, sent you a PRERELEASE DEMO that had a HP much in the same fashion as a Berger. He then stated that the production bullets we're not like that and that they had a closed tip. So they are non-mushrooming. Alabama rules say only mushrooming bullets are allowed. Don't give a flip how or what you hunt with. Just thankful you don't do it in my state.

HAHAHAHA!!! Never had a deer escape me, other than once, when i was using a Hornady 139 SST...And I still recovered it that evening. Shot placement. Grasping for straws after the 215 Hybrid comment, huh? Keep up the good work...

Also, I said that I didn't recommend using it, but that it would probably still kill a deer/lope just the same with good shot placement. I'm not arguing how well it will do the job, but FMJ's have killed A LOT of things over the years.

As for you being an out of state Alabama hunting law expert... Well... I'll just leave that alone.

In Alabama state law says you can't have FMJ .30-06 Sprg. ammo too... But they sell it here with no problems. Some laws are outdated, and some get overlooked purposefully because of that fact...Sort of like the one you bring up. Never heard of anyone getting fined for hunting squirrels with a solid lead .22LR...

I never once said to go and do it... I just said it would kill like any other bullet.

 

[Barrelnut]

 

[Barrelnut]

Lots of fun. I can never win. Catch you on the next thread Mud. No hard feelings.

 

[257 Blackjack]

I would look at the Browning Hells Canyon. Believe they make 2 versions of it. One is more dedicated to long range.

Think I'm the only guy who posted that actually shoots both cartridages and have for a long time. The 6.5 Creed IS the way to go. Most posters did not even consider your use of factory ammo. And the other ( always predictipal ones are even suggesting you go for a wildcat. LOL) The Blackjack bullet maynot even become reality and if it does there may/ maynot ever be a hunting version of the bullet.

Anyway... If you are gonna be hunting SD. You'll want the 6.5 Creed. It just does better in the wind and Hornady makes some very good 129 Gr. SST hunting ammo for it. I was shooting some of it last month and doing very well with it at 640 yards. You will be has pressed to find factory 25-06 ammo that can hang with that.
I have a kills at 375 and 463 yards with the 25-06 and 463 was pushing it. The Creed will do better with a heavier high BC bullet.

Why not just use the 7mm in SD and not worry about any of this? You also have the 243 for closer stuff?

Barrelnut,

I don't want to distract from the OP's question, but let me assure you the bullets are real. I've got about $80,000 real dollars invested in the project from a-z. We aren't releasing HP version of the ACE to keep it very clear which bullet is designated as our hunting bullet which will be the HTR released at the end of 2018 or early 2019. I'll be hunting with the 131 ACE - I've never had a single issue hunting up to Elk with target bullets but I am not going to label the ACE that way until much more terminal testing is done. We went back and forth about releasing an ACE HP but due to the great response of a lot of guys we knew we could go ahead and release the HTR.

Now to the OP, 25-06 or 6.5 Creedmoor.

6.5 Creedmoor - and there's 72 good options to choose from.

#1 Cheap match grade ammunition
#2 You'll begin stockpiling brass for when you want to reload
#3 If you never do you have a huge market of guys you can barter with to trade brass for hunting gear or binos or whatever. You can even sell it outright.
#4 When you get the itch to switch cartridges you can flatter out your trajectory going to 6 Creedmoor or 25 Creedmoor. : )
#5 Yes the 6.5 Creedmoor will have more drop than 25-06 at short ranges but barrel life and recoil will be lower and you will likely shoot a hunting or medium weight rifle much more confidently, accurately, and enjoy practice sessions more.
#6 If you want to shoot long range the 6.5 Creedmoor will do you better service unless you chambered a 25-06 with a fast twist barrel and run 131 ACEs out of it lol. There's a lot of times I don't want to reload and for the myriad of Match Grade options and Great Pricing, the 6.5 Creedmoor is entirely hard to beat.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Lots of fun. I can never win. Catch you on the next thread Mud. No hard feelings.

Absolutely, no hard feelings. Very few folks I dislike. I do enjoy the good debates, I must admit.

 

[Litehiker]

I have a 6.5 CM Ruger American Predator (heavier barrel than standard American) and it is amazingly accurate with 143 gr. Hornady ELD-X cartridges - as in mainly 3/4" to 1/2" groups at 100 yards from a bench rest.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is an excellent competition cartridge that has turned out to be a great hunting cartridge for medium game including cow elk. Its wind cheating ability has proven to be much better than the .308 Win.

25-06 cartridges will not have the availability of many loads for factory cartridges or, for hand loading, bullet styles and weights as the 6.5 CM now has. Not to mention it is a longer cartridge, often requiring a more expensive rifle.

Eric B.

 

[MudRunner2005]

How does a longer cartridge require "a more expensive rifle"??? Never heard that one before...

And actually, if done right, you can get lots of reloads on your .25-06 brass. Sure, factory ammo options have diminished over the decades, because the weapons cabal decided to try to nix the .25-06 from existence, and they ****-near did it in the commercial market. Now that companies like Blackjack are making heavy high-BC LR bullets for the 1/4-bores, and awesome barrel companies like Bartlein, Krieger, Lilja, Rock Creek, etc... are making proper modern-twist barrels, there will be a huge up-swing in .257 popularity.

And also, the windage abilities of the 6.5CM are not THAT much better than the .308 Win, when you compare equal weight-for-caliber bullets. Comparing a 140 grain 6.5 to a 168 grain .308 is like comparing a Ferrari to a Honda Civic... The heavier 180-215 grain .308 caliber bullets will close that gap to nearly non-existent.

 

[Dentite]

I disagree though... The 6.5 Creedmoor is what the 260 Remington could have been if Remington had actually spent half a second thinking about the cartridge and designing it for its intended use instead of just necking down a 308 case and calling it "good enough". It's not just better marketing. The Creedmoor case was designed from the ground up to efficiently shoot the most common bullet weights in a 6.5 and have them load from SAMMI spec magazines without the bullets eating into case capacity.

Its not that the 260 "doesnt work", its that there is a better way of doing things without as many compromises with the 6.5 Creedmoor. The advantages of the Creedmoor are not significant enough to run out and have all your 260's re-barreled, but there are enough that if you are investing in an entirely new rifle and starting from scratch, you would be foolish to go with the 260 with better options are available.

It's like people who sold their brand new cars during the gas crisis took on additional payments to get something that got at most 15% better mileage, that wasnt smart. But for a person buying their first car during that time period, it would make sense to buy the more modern more efficient alternative, all other things being equal. That's how I see the Creedmoor, and for the OP investing in a brand new rifle and planning to run factory ammo, it's really a no brainer.

I agree that the difference isn't enough to go buy a different rifle. And I agree that given the choice today, I'd buy a 6.5 Creedmore over .260 just due to the fact that it's more popular today so more rifles are chambered in it, etc.

And I understand that the case design is different and some would say it's improved. Shorter case, shorter neck, steeper shoulder, etc.

But my point was that when people say a .260 doesn't fit well in a short action, I would say that it fits just fine in my short actions.

If the same bullet comes out at the same velocity (or better) and is just as accurate, and you get the same amount of brass life, does it really mean that one is "better" or different than the other?

I understand how the two cases differ, and I understand how it could make a difference, but my point is what if it actually doesn't make a difference? Is it still correct to say one is better than the other.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just offering an opinion.

 

[Duhawk]

My 2cents....since the OP isn't going to handload, Creedmoor. You can walk into any sporting goods store and probably buy any flavor you want.
But what about barrel twist?? Off the shelf it's 8" and you can shoot anything up to the 147grn ELD. With VLDs you get more bearing surface with heavier bullets for long range such as Sierras 150grn or Matrix 152s where 7.5" is preferred to stabilize the bullet....I guess my point is, if the OP doesn't hand load now, he should probably plan to down the road. Which opens up a whole new discussion/argument on what caliber.....my preference would be 6.5X47...that's just me.
And 25-06 has a lot of possibilities as well....get tired of it and re-barrel to 6.5-06AI with all that 25-06 brass. The possibilities are endless...(I realize I just veered this discussion off the cliff...sorry).

 

[brinky]

I have owned both and both are very capable for what you intend to hunt. Your issue will be finding ammo for the 25-06. I highly recommend starting to hand load your own ammo. Anyone who likes guns and hunting will appreciate loading their own ammo. Unfortunately the 25 caliber is dying off due to the 6.5. It's a self fulfilling prophecy basically. The 25 isn't as good as the 6.5 because no one makes good bullets for it so no one shoots it. So no one shoots it anymore because no one makes good bullets for it. All a 25-06 needs is someone to make a high BC bullet at about 125-130 grains and it will be king of the world.
So, all said you would be better off with a 6.5 at this point in the game. Start hand loading and it doesn't matter.

 

[therifleman556]

You haven't read much of this thread have you?

 

[MudRunner2005]

I have owned both and both are very capable for what you intend to hunt. Your issue will be finding ammo for the 25-06. I highly recommend starting to hand load your own ammo. Anyone who likes guns and hunting will appreciate loading their own ammo. Unfortunately the 25 caliber is dying off due to the 6.5. It's a self fulfilling prophecy basically. The 25 isn't as good as the 6.5 because no one makes good bullets for it so no one shoots it. So no one shoots it anymore because no one makes good bullets for it. All a 25-06 needs is someone to make a high BC bullet at about 125-130 grains and it will be king of the world.
So, all said you would be better off with a 6.5 at this point in the game. Start hand loading and it doesn't matter.

Actually, it's not dying-off because of the 6.5mm... It's dying because all of the bullet and barrel manufacturers chose to improve every other caliber's bullet options, other than .257 and 8mm (.323). So, they eventually died-off.

The .257 is better than the 6.5mm when you compare BC's of the new Blackjack 131 ACE bullets to a 140 6.5mm bullet.

Like I stated, Blackjack is now making .257 131 grain bullets that have a G7 BC of .330. So, yes, someone is now making high BC bullets for the .257 caliber.

 

[brinky]

That's good news. I haven't looked at .25 cal bullets in a long time. I've been preoccupied shooting my 280AI and other 7mm's. Hopefully the 25-06 will hang on as I found it to be a fantastic deer round with anything 100 grains or better. At this point in the game my herd of rifles are whittled down to three. I can probably narrow that to two. A well loaded 25-06 could be a one and done for everything up to elk. Hopefully it will get some more attention.