Barnes TTSX Performance on Elk (photos)

[Song Dogger]

Two years ago, I shot an elk quartering away at 75 yards with a 7mm Rem Mag 140 grain Barnes VOR-TX TTSX BT (solid copper bullet). The elk hunched up, then ran. No blood. Didn't feel like I gut shot him, but even so, I thought it might have reached vitals given the distance, angle, and bullet. Never found him.

Same year, same ammo, I shot a different elk twice through the ribs at 450 yards. I heard the thuds and saw dust puff off the elk on both. Each shot turned him, but no obvious flinching. There was no blood trail, but my friend jumped him a few hundred yards away. I finished him with a couple shots at 350 yards. We recovered one bullet from the 450 yard chest shot, which reached the hide on the far side. See photos below for the bullet shape, weight retention (99%), and petal expansion (1.5 x original diameter).

I decided to try more power. Last year, I shot an elk in the neck at 200 yards with a 300 Win Mag 180 grain Barnes VOR-TX TTSX BT. No reaction, but I found a blood pool where he stood for a few minutes. But, no blood trail as he walked off. After a couple hour wait, I found him bedded down and shot him in the chest at 100 yards. He quickly stood up and was about to run, so I put another in the chest, right next to the first. He turned toward me and nearly reached me before slowly expiring. While processing it, a bullet fell to the ground, so I can't say if it was the 200 yard neck or a 100 yard chest shot. Again, see photos below for the bullet shape, weight retention (65%), and expansion (petals broke off, max diameter = 1.1 x original).

Prior to this, I've shot a dozen elk or so with simple Speer Spitzer Soft Points. Not a huge sample, and my memory is fading, but I generally recall better blood trails, more reactions when hit, less follow-up shots, and cleaner kills.

Before I start researching another bullet, any surprises or comments about the TTSX performance - either from my experience and photos below, or from your own personal experience?
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PS) for those inclined, the ballistics for all Barnes VOR-TX TTSX BT can be found at http://www.barnesbullets.com/files/2017/11/Barnes-Ammo-Ballistic-Chart-Standard-2017-1.pdf​

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[RockyMtnMT]

Bullets have a banana shape like they were not well enough stabilized. What is the stability factor with your twist rate at sea level?

Steve

 

[Song Dogger]

Found a calculator online. Both the 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag are the same at 1.56 at sea level, which the calculator says are fully stable. I'm wondering, though, if the banana shape is shadows and photo distortion. I took the photos from an angle - note how the start of each sentence on the left side flares out as you go down, but the indentation is perfectly straight in real life. Similarly, the bullets have no obvious bow in them in real life.

 

[Tidus56]

I saw the carcass of a 380 plus bull elk that had to be shot 7 times with a 300 RUM. The hunter who brought it to my neighbor (a butcher) told me this was the second time with the TTSX he had to shoot the elk multiple times. All bullets punched through like an FMJ. 7 times on this one and 6 on the elk the year before. Both elk were recovered but 6-7 hits that were in the vitals? This is also a small sample size and likely an odd result so take it for what its worth. I also know the guide on this elk, he confirmed the hits were good and all hits at 700 yards. I have thought about trying the Hammer line of bullets as a possible copper bullet.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

All I can really talk about is our bullet as it is the only one we have tested. Our search for the right copper that did on impact what we wanted was difficult. Our goal was to have our bullet fully deform as soon as possible on impact at high or low vel. We do not want any of the nose to stay attached and the nose of the retained shank to be flat and perpendicular to the sides like a flat based bullet turned around backwards. Our good terminal performance due to that deformation happening very rapidly so that the retained portion still carries good vel to cause a large permanent wound channel. The shed petals generally travel along with the retained portion and exit as well. Often on the exit hole there will be 3 or 4 smaller exits around it. We consider the shed nose petals as a bonus, we count on the rapid deformation of the retained shank. This is why we have no plans on ever tipping our bullets. The top is simply in the way of this process.

Steve

 

[Elkeater]

I've got friend who kills everything with barnes. I haven't been real impressed. 2 years ago he shot a bull at 300 yards and it soaked up 5 rounds. the last one was administered from 2 feet to the back of the head. last season he shot a cow and a calf at 60 yards. the cow stumbled around for a minute and went down. the calf flopped around for a minute with 2 broken shoulders before he shot it in the head. he has shot tons of deer and antelope with Barnes bullets and most are bang flops but Elk seem to soak them up.

 

[memtb]

I started using Barnes mono Bullets in the early '90's, yah....the bad ones. My first kill was with the original X bullet....end to end on an elk, broke off one petal, elk may have gone 60 or so yards after the shot! As Barnes improved their Bullets, I evolved with them. With quite a few elk kills since that first mono.....I've only had to shoot one a second time. It was an across draw shot, with a hard wind, and I "gut-shot" the elk....requiring a second shot. All others have been one shot kills. The same for antelope, moose, and sheep!
We've been using them in my wife's rifle since the mid- 90's. She's had two elk requiring a second shot ( one of which was shot at the same time as mine....we really mis-judged the wind). Other than the two mentioned,she's taken, elk, moose, antelope, and bear, from approximately 30 yards to a measured 400 yards.....all one shot kills!

Only one recovered bullet ( the one mentioned), all others were pass-throughs!

They've worked exceptionally well for us....we're not changing! memtb

 

[WyoHunter1]

I have never lost an animal with a Barnes. I have recovered 4 so far from a 300WBY. Shot a Moose at 350 yards right behind the shoulder then he turned and I put another behind the shoulder again he dropped. Recovered both bullets under the hide on the opposite side. Shot an Elk at 450 yards bullet stopped by the hide on the opposite side. And shot 1 at 200 yards center of chest went full length of his body and stopped under the hide of his hip.
If you don't hit anything harder than soft tissue then they might not expand but the TTSX when put thru a shoulder or ribs might seems to be the ticket.
I have shot numerous other Elk, Deer and Antelope with the TTSX with good results.
Last year I shot 2 Elk with a 28 Nosler with 160 Grain Accubonds and all the bullets went straight thru with almost no blood because all I hit was soft tissue. Just pencil holes.
I have Steve at Hammer bullets working up loads right now for the 28.

 

[JJMoody]

The 225 grain .338 TSX has killed 3 bulls for me 230yds to 425. All 3 one and done. The last bull almost seemed to be dead before the bullet hit him. No wobbling no thinking about dying, just dead. These were not the tipped bullets, so maybe as Steve said, the tip is just in the way. Also, of note, things seem to die faster with a bigger bullet.

 

[memtb]

My wife's 2 antelope, a moose, a bear, and 2 elk were taken with the 225 TTSX. Again, no Bullets recovered, the most recent elk required a follow-up shot....placement! memtb

 

[JohnnieB]

We, me, my wife, and my friend, only use Barnes bullets for hunting, and I do all the reloading for a variety of cartridges, 6.5WSM up to 340Wby. We're at 19 elk, one kudu, one sable, 4 oryx, 20+ deer (100 - 275lbs), four antelope (120-160lbs) and God only knows how many hogs (80 - 350lbs), and an assortment of other things. All have been one shot kills, with 2 exceptions. One was due to a bad judgement on wind requiring a second shot, and no explanation for the second one, just needed a second shot. No animal has gone over 75 yards after being hit, and only one animal, a hog was lost...we think it was taken by a bear.

All shots have been from 10 - 520 yards and the dead animals speak to the bullet performance. Collectively, I think we have recovered 5 bullets with rest being pass through shots.

My personal opinion is that there are better bullets for long range hunting, but under 600 yards, the TTSX is fully capable.

 

[marioq]

I would be very interested to get Steve's input on bullet design and construction. Not asking for bad mouthing of Barnes but just the differences between the hammer bullets in the Barnes Bullets. The quality or density of the copper seems to be one point. I'm curious about the construction in the design of the petals. That was the whole point. Again not look in the bashes I own both bullets and have not had the opportunity to shoot the hammers yet but I am definitely looking forward to a big hunt here in South Texas with them. I have seen with Zen archery Did with his 6.5. Just curious. Thank you for any input

 

[jimbires]

Song Dogger , your experience with them sounds like mine . I won't hunt with them again . I only used the TSX bullet 7mm 160 gr at 3100 FPS . I hunted with a guy that used the TTSX bullet 7mm " I think a 140gr " from a 280AI . I have no idea on velocity . same results I got . with all this said , as you see above , some guys really have great luck with them .

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I would be very interested to get Steve's input on bullet design and construction. Not asking for bad mouthing of Barnes but just the differences between the hammer bullets in the Barnes Bullets. The quality or density of the copper seems to be one point. I'm curious about the construction in the design of the petals. That was the whole point. Again not look in the bashes I own both bullets and have not had the opportunity to shoot the hammers yet but I am definitely looking forward to a big hunt here in South Texas with them. I have seen with Zen archery Did with his 6.5. Just curious. Thank you for any input

I'll only comment on what I do know. We went through literally thousands of pounds of copper looking for the alloy and hardness that gave us the terminal performance that we were looking for. Just the other day we hauled several thousand pounds of copper in to have it recycled at a rate that was a fraction of what we paid for it. For the most part this copper was not bad copper, just not as good as we wanted, and we simply could not compromise our principle of making the best bullet possible by using it when we know we have a better copper. We will always be open to finding a better copper than we have now, but we are very happy with the consistency of the current alloy we have now. The key for us has been the proper softness and malleability.

Steve