bigngreen
Well-Known Member
Can anyone list a positive thing that introducing this wolf has done?
Wolf kill pics.... Trophy Bull Elk.....
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coyotelite
Well-Known Member
the pro wolf crowd argues that the vegitation along streams has improved due to the reduced number of deer and elk in yellowstone. that is the only "posative" thing I have read.
freebird63
Well-Known Member
Give hunters another reason not to put away their hunting for the winter.
Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
If you're a lawyer it's been a big money maker! Wyoming had an approved plan that took the wolf off the ESA for a short time. Then the antis challenged it in Court and things went down the tube. Judge Johnson made a final ruling that the Feds should not have dropped the Wyoming plan after it had been approved because it had already been accepted as a good plan like the Feds had asked of each state. Now that the rider on the Bill in Congress has been passed it will hopefully allow wolves to be hunted in Wyoming in the next year or two. The wolves have also been taken off the ESA recently by the Feds in the Great Lakes States and the individual states are now able to come up with plans to manage them individually.
I think that one of the points, that would be a new thread,that drahthaar was making is that Canada is doing ok with wolf. I think that it doesnt totally correlate because it is such a larger and vast system than The lower nwest area. I have driving through all way to AK. i T IS ENORMOUS.I dont know there regs, but I use to go up and shot 3-d up north. It seems like back then they where going to a 6pt.rule in alot of area and folks where not happy People would not like to see it here either.But I think MT needs some more restrictive areas for better trophy potential.I have hunted areas like this and have had friends w/special tags and the spots are fantastic. Side note, they are wolf free also. I hunt with a self imposed 6pt. rule, I want a mature animal.
Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
IMHO the Canadian Provinces would be hard to correlate with what we have down here because of the enormous area they encompass and the relative lack of hunting compared to the USA.
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
I don't think the Canadian experience is different than ours. It's a bit difficult to find on the net what the Game departments numbers are, but they are killing a lot of wolves in BC. Trappers are still at it. Guides have extended their seasons by offering winter hunts. The one I know is taking 20-30 out of his area every year. Aerial gunning and even poison are still in use. The Game department seems to stay low key as not to inflame the Anti's. I did find where the anti's were upset the dollars from auction hunts were going to wolf control. Alberta is having quite a few problems. other provinces as well.
Every BC hunt I've been on the people I've met just kind of take care of their problems without making a fuss.
Every BC hunt I've been on the people I've met just kind of take care of their problems without making a fuss.
jmden
Well-Known Member
Size of Canada in square miles: 3.5 million square miles
Number of people in Canada: 33.4 million (2011)
Size of continental US in square miles: 3.1 million square miles
Number of people in continental US: 306.6 million (2010)
Somewhat similar size. Nearly 10x the number of people in the continental US.
I think Wyoming has had it right all along--open season on wolves all the time anywhere. Even at that there will still need to be aggressive aerial gunning, trapping, etc. to keep a population that grows at a rate many times faster than the elk and deer and moose herds to give the cervids a chance, not to mention the stock in the farmers back yard. History has shown this time and again with wolves.
Edit: Topgun, it sounds like you know a bit about hunting in Canada. Can you fill us in on how/why there is this lack of hunting up there? I just don't know much about hunting up there except I know that Vancouver Island has a huge population of black bears and reportetdly some of the largest black bear on earth. I see quite a few of them nearly every year when I go up there for a week long + sea kayaking trip on the west coast. That is also where I've had a number of close, some uncomfortably so, encounters with wolves and bears. The only deer that I recall seeing around Vancouver Island have been on small offshore islands. I don't recall seeing deer on the main Vancouver Island. Canadian kayakers I've talked to blame this on unchecked cougar population growth there, but it's got to include wolves and bears, black and grizzly, as well. Grizzlies on the island, especially the north end, swimming across from mainland BC, are well documented.
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jmden
Well-Known Member
VERY good question.
The standard answer of better riparian habitat in some areas previously used heavily by elk/moose is pretty weak, all things considered. If you have to hang your hat on that...wow.
Oh, but I forgot...the city folks can come out and hear a wolf howl now and again and be joyful that wilderness still exists! After all, the wolf is THE symbol of wilderness. Well, it may be for some people that have sucked up the marketing like there is no tomorrow, but they seem blind to the mess the number of wolves we have now and have had for some time is causing otherwise.
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
Wolf howling is very romantic!lightbulb
ff6602
Active Member
Hot topic; and it should be. The best way I can discribe our situation in the west would be a story about the chicken farmer and the neighbors dogs. Deer and Elk herds are the chickens, the hunters are the chicken farmers, the wolves are the neighbors dogs and the government is the neighbor.
The neighbors dogs are killing our chickens and the neighbors don't seem to care.
All hunters need to be active in getting control of this problem.
Can't say what I would do if I saw one in my area, not sure I want to on public forum.
With that said, I have some berger vld rounds to handload, a rifle to clean,and a sturdy handle to attach to a digging tool,ssshhhhh.............gun)
The neighbors dogs are killing our chickens and the neighbors don't seem to care.
All hunters need to be active in getting control of this problem.
Can't say what I would do if I saw one in my area, not sure I want to on public forum.
With that said, I have some berger vld rounds to handload, a rifle to clean,and a sturdy handle to attach to a digging tool,ssshhhhh.............gun)
jmden
Well-Known Member
Destroyers Of Wildlife: A DEAL BETWEEN DEVILS
Another Jim Beers take on the USFWS--a 32 year veteran there.
Another Jim Beers take on the USFWS--a 32 year veteran there.
jmden
Well-Known Member
Yellowstone is Dead — Yellowstone is Dead © copyright 2011
A 2011 video: "Yellowstone is Dead © copyright 2011 is the first full featured Documentary explaining the corruption and fraud in the wolf introduction Racket. From Yellowstone National Park, to Jackson Hole Wyoming, to the mountains of Idaho, Wolves are decimating our wildlife, and it is being covered up.
Scott Rockholm Documented and recorded many people caught in the middle of this Corruption and scientific fraud."
There is a short trailer at the above link. Check it out.
I'm guessing it's somewhat similar to the Crying Wolf many of us are aware of and have purchased. I have 1 copy of the Crying Wolf movie and am trying to get it to every person that will watch it. I just bought a copy of this 'Yellowstone is Dead' show. I'll watch it and then decide what to do. I don't believe it'll take long to decide. Having a copy, or several, of these movies and distributing it around to folks that will watch may be a valid way to spread the word.
It is only going to be through a massive public outcry, spawned by the true information of what has gone on, that we will be able to force congress to change the ESA. Fight the fight and spread the word.
A 2011 video: "Yellowstone is Dead © copyright 2011 is the first full featured Documentary explaining the corruption and fraud in the wolf introduction Racket. From Yellowstone National Park, to Jackson Hole Wyoming, to the mountains of Idaho, Wolves are decimating our wildlife, and it is being covered up.
Scott Rockholm Documented and recorded many people caught in the middle of this Corruption and scientific fraud."
There is a short trailer at the above link. Check it out.
I'm guessing it's somewhat similar to the Crying Wolf many of us are aware of and have purchased. I have 1 copy of the Crying Wolf movie and am trying to get it to every person that will watch it. I just bought a copy of this 'Yellowstone is Dead' show. I'll watch it and then decide what to do. I don't believe it'll take long to decide. Having a copy, or several, of these movies and distributing it around to folks that will watch may be a valid way to spread the word.
It is only going to be through a massive public outcry, spawned by the true information of what has gone on, that we will be able to force congress to change the ESA. Fight the fight and spread the word.
freebird63
Well-Known Member
Ok we all know that wolves kill and eat ungulates and we all know that a very hard core anti wolf guy "Robert Fanning" is not going say anything positive about wolves. At the same time you have the extreme pro wolf side that says they should still be on ESA list and most of these people also are against hunting all together. There were several years where none of the wolf pups in yellowstone survived because of parvo and either mange. Also the extreme pro side claims ranchers and anti's somehow unleashed parvo and mange inside the park. Also you do have pack to pack confrontations and lots of wolves get killed that way.
Anyone who has been around wildlife for any period of time can see with there own two eyes how messed up the eco system is. Man has taken away mother natures ability to mange itself. Take for instance on the Oregon coast someone had the idea to farm a rodent called a Nutria and when they did not make the money like with the mink farms they just openned the cages and set them free and for about 10 years they reeked havoc on the dikes and the native rodents, muskrat and beaver. But little did anyone this rodent that was brought up from South America could not take some of the cold temps that would hit the coast every now and then and with trappers and hunters going after them pretty soon things started getting back to normal. The same can be said for wolves, they won't stay in an area where there is not food to support them. Now some of you may call me names and that I am a pro wolfer, I hunt big game and have all my life. Wildlife can adapt to different situations better then some will admit or think. Did I harvest a mule deer last year....No .... and yes there are lots of wolves in the area I hunted, but I am not blaming the wolves as the deer have learned and changed their system. Something that seems funny to me is you bring up poaching and a few people will get upset and most of the anti's advocate SSS. Just a couple a years ago a couple of hard core anti wolf guys got busted here in Idaho for poaching elk, if you didn't have about it was Tony Mayer from save our elk website and Rex Rammell. Everyone knows SSS is alive and well and has been for many years and we all know that lots of deer and elk are still poached here in Idaho alone. My main concern is that the powers that be and thats if they would ever tell the truth keep an acurate as they can number of wolves because if too many are killed then they go back on the ESA list and it will be many years before the states will get control back. Preserving our 2nd amendment right and our rights to continue to hunt is very important. I know there will never be any common ground between the two sides and the few people that are in the middle will not say anything for fear of harrassment and flaming messages and emails. You have to admit in this day and age with the internet things can get changed around in a quick hurry. Just because its on the internet does not mean its the truth or really happened. Remember you say potatoe and I say potato. Its nice to have a forum like this where just the mention of not being an anti wolf person doesn't get you kicked off like other forums I have seen. Thank you Len
Anyone who has been around wildlife for any period of time can see with there own two eyes how messed up the eco system is. Man has taken away mother natures ability to mange itself. Take for instance on the Oregon coast someone had the idea to farm a rodent called a Nutria and when they did not make the money like with the mink farms they just openned the cages and set them free and for about 10 years they reeked havoc on the dikes and the native rodents, muskrat and beaver. But little did anyone this rodent that was brought up from South America could not take some of the cold temps that would hit the coast every now and then and with trappers and hunters going after them pretty soon things started getting back to normal. The same can be said for wolves, they won't stay in an area where there is not food to support them. Now some of you may call me names and that I am a pro wolfer, I hunt big game and have all my life. Wildlife can adapt to different situations better then some will admit or think. Did I harvest a mule deer last year....No .... and yes there are lots of wolves in the area I hunted, but I am not blaming the wolves as the deer have learned and changed their system. Something that seems funny to me is you bring up poaching and a few people will get upset and most of the anti's advocate SSS. Just a couple a years ago a couple of hard core anti wolf guys got busted here in Idaho for poaching elk, if you didn't have about it was Tony Mayer from save our elk website and Rex Rammell. Everyone knows SSS is alive and well and has been for many years and we all know that lots of deer and elk are still poached here in Idaho alone. My main concern is that the powers that be and thats if they would ever tell the truth keep an acurate as they can number of wolves because if too many are killed then they go back on the ESA list and it will be many years before the states will get control back. Preserving our 2nd amendment right and our rights to continue to hunt is very important. I know there will never be any common ground between the two sides and the few people that are in the middle will not say anything for fear of harrassment and flaming messages and emails. You have to admit in this day and age with the internet things can get changed around in a quick hurry. Just because its on the internet does not mean its the truth or really happened. Remember you say potatoe and I say potato. Its nice to have a forum like this where just the mention of not being an anti wolf person doesn't get you kicked off like other forums I have seen. Thank you Len
