What does a custom build rig really get you???

[gohring3006]

Custom is just that, custom.
If you build one it should be customized to you. If you build or buy a cookie cutter rifle, then you have to get accustomed to it.
Warning, once you go custom it's hard to go back to factory.
8 oz triggers, very easy to clean barrels, and very forgiving load development makes you spoiled.
Same thing happens with going to mid tier to high end scopes.

 

[Mram10us]

i agree but it's still going to move the barrel by a small amount. It technically effects accuracy. It starts moving things before the bullet has left, even in the milliseconds. Now I've heard it 3 different ways: that it doesn't matter to that it matters a lot. I'm under the impression that it's there, and that it has an effect, but not enough to notice, IF you are straight back behind the rifle and doing what you are suppose to be doing with good fundamentals. It's not the only slow motion footage with proof of concept. People have been compensating for this for years without even thinking about, like using "follow through" and "recoil management" to raising the butt pad closer to the height of the bore.

Now I know your in the break business so I respect your insight, but, whether you have to clock your break because the break has a bad design or simply use follow through, my point is, it there are forces on the bullet/barrel imparted before it leaves the barrel that otherwise wouldn't be there if there was no break. The break can either make it worst, OR does not increase your level of accuracy besides cover up bad recoil management, OR it does not increase accuracy and you have good fundamentals so you have a softer shot and get to save your shoulder if you for those that neglect their dumb bell flys and over head presses.

I've got no skin in the muzzlebrake game, just enjoy shooting with them. I'm sure there are numerous tests showing increased accuracy but I don't have a source except for my own experiences. Guess we need to run a test...

 

[dfanonymous]

Is that a ring of gas, or air being displaced that was in the barrel and the ring you see is water vapor from the humidity in the displaced air?

For the purposes of the conversation, does it matter as it relates to barrel harmonics?
I've heard it being air in big bores, for the amount of volume that can take up the barrel vs say a .224. However, if you think of how a bullet jumps, the fraction of a second it uses to build pressure and tolerance difference in barrels that allows gas to escape around it, my bet is it being gas. Look at the video above your post. It happens with handguns, carbines and bolt guns in center fire cartridges. I know nothing of rim fires.
As JE said, it's a small %. almost not worth debating, but when splitting hairs...

 

[sturner]

I got Two Rem LTRs that shoot a half moa but not factory triggers
I got 3 custom that shoot quarter moa or less
I load for Four custom and they shoot a quarter or less
So I guess it's just what you want to spend your money on
I spend mine on custom

 

[gohring3006]

For the purposes of the conversation, does it matter as it relates to barrel harmonics?
I've heard it being air in big bores, for the amount of volume that can take up the barrel vs say a .224. However, if you think of how a bullet jumps, the fraction of a second it uses to build pressure and tolerance difference in barrels that allows gas to escape around it, my bet is it being gas. Look at the video above your post. It happens with handguns, carbines and bolt guns in center fire cartridges. I know nothing of rim fires.
As JE said, it's a small %. almost not worth debating, but when splitting hairs...

It would be a cool test to use a clean bore with no powder fouling. Powder fouling could give a false positive. Especially in large bore cartridges. You see what appears to be gas, but it's really fouling being mixed with the air. No real way to test to see if it's gas or air though.

 

[gohring3006]

There is a study with Doppler radar and different powders giving different muzzle exit pressures affecting BC of the bullet. So gasses exiting first could have a affect on the bullet, or is it air? Lol

 

[dfanonymous]

It would be a cool test to use a clean bore with no powder fouling. Powder fouling could give a false positive. Especially in large bore cartridges. You see what appears to be gas, but it's really fouling being mixed with the air. No real way to test to see if it's gas or air though.

Sure, I'm open to test for clear results. However, my overall point was the relation to air, gas or whatever, touching the break before it even leaves the barrel, and the NEED to have a break as it relates to accuracy. I'm just the operator. Not the engineer.

As to your second post, I only know of a similar test on military ordnance type weapons. I don't think there was ever a definitive conclusion. If it's an unclass. open study and you have links I'm all about it.

 

[gohring3006]

Sure, I'm open to test for clear results. However, my overall point was the relation to air, gas or whatever, touching the break before it even leaves the barrel, and the NEED to have a break as it relates to accuracy. I'm just the operator. Not the engineer.

As to your second post, I only know of a similar test on military ordnance type weapons. I don't think there was ever a definitive conclusion. If it's an unclass. open study and you have links I'm all about it.

I'll try to find it, I can't remember exactly where it was, but I'm almost certain Hornady did the test, they also found certain rifling can affect bc. I read all this when Hornady was just coming out with its new Doppler. So I'm sure it was them.

 

[BallisticsGuy]

i agree but it's still going to move the barrel by a small amount.

That's a bold and wrong statement. There is a threshold of minimum energy required to deflect a barrel or any other rod. Energy in the direction of bullet travel will not deflect the barrel any direction because the load is compressive but not achieving the deformation pressure required by steel.

 

[gohring3006]

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2019/06/30/personalized-drag-models-the-final-frontier-in-ballistics/Here's a summary of a report I read a few years ago. I can't find the report yet. But Dave wrote it.

 

[Beaver10]

What constitutes a custom? If one uses a factory action, his choice of stock, his choice of barrel, his choice of brake, his choice of trigger, his choice of pad, is that a custom? Or does one need to purchase an after market action to truly be custom?

You're making it too hard...Boxed rig versus custom, or as some would say in your description "semi-custom"....

 

[dfanonymous]

That's a bold and wrong statement. There is a threshold of minimum energy required to deflect a barrel or any other rod. Energy in the direction of bullet travel will not deflect the barrel any direction because the load is compressive but not achieving the deformation pressure required by steel.

I'm talking vibrations not full movement. The effect of accuracy nodes. Personally I don't want to dive into resonant frequencies to change any minds of people who like their muzzle breaks. It doesn't mean that much to me, and the comparison between the frequencies and braked and not braked and isolating muzzle pressure is getting hard into the weeds. But if there was no movement in the barrel, seems that "tuning" a custom load is a waste of time.

 

[dfanonymous]

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2019/06/30/personalized-drag-models-the-final-frontier-in-ballistics/Here's a summary of a report I read a few years ago. I can't find the report yet. But Dave wrote it.

looks like Jim Boatright has some say in it. I trust his work.

 

[BallisticsGuy]

I'm talking vibrations not full movement. The effect of accuracy nodes. Personally I don't want to dive into resonant frequencies to change any minds of people who like their muzzle breaks. It doesn't mean that much to me, and the comparison between the frequencies and braked and not braked and isolating muzzle pressure is getting hard into the weeds. But if there was no movement in the barrel, seems that "tuning" a custom load is a waste of time.

Horse pucky. You were saying that gasses moving parallel to the direction of the travel of the bullet deflect the barrel in a direction other than that which is patently false. It's ok to be wrong and to back peddle.