What does a custom build rig really get you???

[Beaver10]

Lately, I've been having a lot of self talks, about why I continue to have customs built for me versus buying a production rifle, and making minor corrections to it, such as new trigger, bed or float the barrel if needed, and maybe flipping it into a new stock.

These small changes that can make a production line rifle more accurate and comfortable to shoot and is a lot more cost effective than selling blood to fund a full build...In the end, what did we truly gain over a boxed rifle, if both shoot sub groups?

Here's the question...If rubber meeting the road is based on paper, steel, and fur accuracy. Then a box rifle that shoots "even-steven" MOA consistently over 10 rounds and sub MOA on 3 shot groups. What did a guy spending $4k gain, if his rifle does the same?

This question is coming from a guy who has over 15 custom builds. Aside, from pride of ownership and a certain level of confidence knowing that the parts pieced together, both internally and externally are some of the best made today...It doesn't change the fact that a guy who bought a production rifle, can hit the daily-lottery, and have an excellent shooting rig that can hang with a custom all day long.

Who's the smarter guy?

 

[codyadams]

If you don't feel like reading a book, skip to the bold print.

I think it depends on the level of confidence you want to have going in to it that you are going to have an excellent rifle. I have put together factory rifles in premier stocks, triggers, ect., Semi custom's where the action was trued and had a premium barrel installed, premium stock, bottom metal, trigger, and so on, and then full on customs.

MOST factory rifles in fancy dresses (premium stocks, bedding, and trigger) I have worked on, after a better stock and bedding and trigger work, .5-1 MOA @100 yds usually consistently achievable, in some rare cases a little better. I have had a couple that simply would not do better than 1.5 MOA consistently, that is the headache you gamble on with a factory rifle. Is it the crown? Is it the Bore? Chamber? Action? Have you just not found the right combo of components? As stated, it is a headache to deal with at times, and generally ends up with a new barrel and trueing job, moving it into the next catagory.

With both semi customs and full customs, I have not had one that I couldn't get sub half MOA groups out of, that includes extended ranges in good conditions. They have all been relatively easy to find good loads for, with poor loads still generally hanging around MOA or just over, and with proper tuning and good shooting form can get into the .2's or less quite often. Now, from a factory action with a good trueing job, and maybe a couple other odds and ends done, in the accuracy department I have not seen a ton of difference from full customs. If I was into BR type stuff, that is where I think full customs with long barrel tenons and overly robust actions would hold value over a worked over factory action. But with guns in the 7-10 lb range shooting chamberings in the 6.5x284 class and bigger and used for hunting, I am generally happy with groups in the .2's-.3's, which if you have a experienced smith do your work, that is achievable with factory actions.

The difference in my opinion between the worked over factory action and full custom action, is more of an overall feeling and performance in the finer levels. The actions generally run smoother, feels tighter in the raceway, and cuts down on overall slop. It's like comparing a 1970 Chevelle with a hot rebuilt 454, tight rebuilt track suspension and sexy paint job, to a 2019 Camero. They both have fantastic performance, may run the quarter at the same speed, but when the road gets really twisty, that Camero just hugs the corners a little better. Also, the Camero may cost a lot, but you put nearly the same amount of money into that sweet looking Chevelle that was once just a rust bucket in someones pasture to get it up to nearly the same performance. But on the other hand, that Chevelle is yours, and built to your spec, so there is some pride in that.

Overall, I think a factory gun with some bolt on's can perform alright, sometimes surprisingly well. But other times, they can be a total flop. A semi custom built by a reputable qualified smith will pretty much always guarantee stellar performance, and will generally be cheaper than a full custom, but not by a huge margin. A full custom doesn't really gain much in the accuracy division for the majority of users needs, however it adds an overall feel of quality, and if absolute top tier performance is a requirement, it's the way to go. Just this guys thoughts.

 

[dfanonymous]

I think there's a variety of maybe misconception? Between the male ego of simply being able to afford it, to the ignorance that that custom gear makes them a better shooter.

No one NEEDS a 1lb trigger. It only compensates for a problem you already have. For a .30 cal cartridge, a muzzle break doesn't help you to be a better shooter. Sure, it can dampen the recoil, but it's not a fix for bad technique. My point being is that a good shooter can take a stock rifle that is reasonably built and max out its potential. If you are using gear for a special purpose that's a different story, if you know how and why you are using what you are using, and it fills a void. If your abilities as a shooter is good enough that one feel the need to have an custom/accurized rifle, a custom rig can allow you to squeeze every last bit of accuracy out of it. Unfortunately a lot of factory rifles still shoot better than the average shooter.

 

[imyourhuckleberry]

I think you get the pride of ownership as you stated. Nothing wrong with that. I have always wanted one but never pulled the trigger on one due to my shooting style and the practicality of it. Where I live I am limited to shooting 300 yards at steel plates and having one in the safe for months until I am able to drive to west Texas was not practical. Several years ago I was checking my zero on my hunting rifle with 165 grains factory rounds at 200 yards and this young man set up his rig next to me and we exchanged pleasantries.

Well he unpacked this beautiful rifle a 7mm mag with a carbon barrel (not Christensen ) and a rifle scope with custom knobs that was more powerful than my spotting scope. He shot a few times and I guess he finally dialed in and he asked me to see his group. When I looked through his rifle scope it confirmed my initial suspicions , his scope was more powerful than my spotting scope. Anyway his 3 shot group was inside the 1" box that is used at 100 yards they almost touched but not quite it might have measured I guess to say about .580 group at 200 yards. I than offered him to see my shot group which was larger than his but still inside the one inch box but would guess it measure about .750 3 shot group.

I asked him if he would be offended If I asked him how much his set up was and he puffed up his chest like a peacock flaunting his feathers and said $9000. He gave me a brochure of the magazine and people he worked for and was going to write up an article, sorry I don't remember the rifle, and magazine but that day he confirmed my decisions I had wondered about all these years, I had made the correct decision in not buying a custom rifle. For me it is not about money as I can afford all I want in customs builds but its about my shooting style. I don't compete I love to plink and shoot and I love hunting and fishing. My set up is a Tikka T3 lite 30-06 with a Big Sky Sightron scope. I believe I paid back than about $900 or less for both items. I personally don't see spending $8100 more to reduce my shot group by a couple of a thousandths of an inch and I'm using factory ammo. In his defense I've been hunting with a 30-06 for more than 50 years and the underwear I wore that day was probably 25 years older than he was. I'll spend that money instead on a guided elk hunt in Colorado or Montana, but that is me.

Your rifles have brought you joy and as they are custom I consider them a piece of art, so don't over think your decisions.

 

[Beaver10]

Excellent points...Same for an average weekend golfer with a pile of cash hoping the next newest, baddest driver, putter, or wedge will get them to break 90.

I agree that guys running comp rigs for competition have a requirement where an enhanced rifle, shotgun, or pistol will provide assistance in their pursuit of improvements in stages or courses.

Personally, I'm realistic, knowing a well built rifle in my hands is really only reinforcing the shooting skills I currently have - Only improvement would be the functionality of a custom, hopefully being better than a box rig.

 

[Beaver10]

I think you get the pride of ownership as you stated. Nothing wrong with that. I have always wanted one but never pulled the trigger on one due to my shooting style and the practicality of it. Where I live I am limited to shooting 300 yards at steel plates and having one in the safe for months until I am able to drive to west Texas was not practical. Several years ago I was checking my zero on my hunting rifle with 165 grains factory rounds at 200 yards and this young man set up his rig next to me and we exchanged pleasantries.

Well he unpacked this beautiful rifle a 7mm mag with a carbon barrel (not Christensen ) and a rifle scope with custom knobs that was more powerful than my spotting scope. He shot a few times and I guess he finally dialed in and he asked me to see his group. When I looked through his rifle scope it confirmed my initial suspicions , his scope was more powerful than my spotting scope. Anyway his 3 shot group was inside the 1" box that is used at 100 yards they almost touched but not quite it might have measured I guess to say about .580 group at 200 yards. I than offered him to see my shot group which was larger than his but still inside the one inch box but would guess it measure about .750 3 shot group.

I asked him if he would be offended If I asked him how much his set up was and he puffed up his chest like a peacock flaunting his feathers and said $9000. He gave me a brochure of the magazine and people he worked for and was going to write up an article, sorry I don't remember the rifle, and magazine but that day he confirmed my decisions I had wondered about all these years, I had made the correct decision in not buying a custom rifle. For me it is not about money as I can afford all I want in customs builds but its about my shooting style. I don't compete I love to plink and shoot and I love hunting and fishing. My set up is a Tikka T3 lite 30-06 with a Big Sky Sightron scope. I believe I paid back than about $900 or less for both items. I personally don't see spending $8100 more to reduce my shot group by a couple of a thousandths of an inch and I'm using factory ammo. In his defense I've been hunting with a 30-06 for more than 50 years and the underwear I wore that day was probably 25 years older than he was. I'll spend that money instead on a guided elk hunt in Colorado or Montana, but that is me.

Your rifles have brought you joy and as they are custom I consider them a piece of art, so don't over think your decisions.

And it all made sense when you said you own a Tikka. Laffin.

Dang Tikka's can make a rationally minded custom rifle owner say....***? I have a $4k rifle and this fella has a $1200 Tikka CTR that just went 1/4" at 200 yards. Certain production rifles can shoot very well.

I truly enjoy my builds. I like shooting them near and far and putting critters in the freezer....But, like dfa stated, give an excellent shooter and good rifle, and he'll likely make your custom rig look bad that day...

 

[imyourhuckleberry]

And it all made sense when you said you own a Tikka. Laffin.

Dang Tikka's can make a rationally minded custom rifle owner say....*Rule 4 Violation*? I have a $4k rifle and this fella has a $1200 Tikka CTR that just went 1/4" at 200 yards. Certain production rifles can shoot very well.

I truly enjoy my builds. I like shooting them near and far and putting critters in the freezer....But, like dfa stated, give an excellent shooter and good rifle, and he'll likely make your custom rig look bad that day...

I have stated in the past to novice shooters, nowadays with the advances that have been made in metallurgy now and bullet production, even the least expensive rifle out of the box is an moa shooter, what is not is the shooter. Only range time will get you to shoot better as shooting is a skill that diminishes rapidly and if shooter don't have the money for shooting a lot this is where a 22lr rifle shines as you can shoot all day and it won't hurt your wallet. It's how I do it all the time.

 

[WildRose]

If you get the right rig put togther from the right pieces and parts by someone that knows what they are doing you get about as close to perfection as one can achieve.

It also gets you there in one step vs buying a factory rifle adding a stock, trigger, bedding and all of the little extras we throw on in search of itty bitty groups and consistent first shot cold bore accuracy.

I've got both and I've even got some factory rifles I never did anything other than floating and bedding and maybe adding a MB.

Everything we do to customize a factory rifle adds our own personal and unique signature to it.

When you build one from scratch though, you're putting your personal stamp on all of it and it is a reflection of who you are as a shooter/hunter at that time.

Now, let it not be ignored that factory rifles in general are better today than perhaps at any time in history due to modern production tech but not even the most expensive, highest tech milling and lathe units are capable of the kind of precision that is done with hand fitting matched pieces and parts together to come up with that really special custom rig.

Honestly if you add up all the pieces and parts from stocks to triggers to rails etc that we retrofit an average rifle trying to get all we can out of it, the cost of most customs starts looking more and more reasonable.

 

[KyCarl]

Sure you can drive a Pinto..And yes it really does beat walking! But why not have what you want? I worked hard too many years and now I refuse to settle I get just what I want! "Well it has most of what I want I did want a 26" barrel but they only offer 24"
None of that! If I want 26 I get 26!

 

[Don A Parsons]

I have some close to factory,,, some custom,,, I guess it's personal preference that makes it worth the efforts...

Get what we want and put it together... Of course it's the type of person and funds that we choose to pick from in all the options that are out there...

I like both options,,, it gives me something to do between many other things going on in the wilds...

Cheers from the North

 

[Mram10us]

I think there's a variety of maybe misconception? Between the male ego of simply being able to afford it, to the ignorance that that custom gear makes them a better shooter.

No one NEEDS a 1lb trigger. It only compensates for a problem you already have. For a .30 cal cartridge, a muzzle break doesn't help you to be a better shooter. Sure, it can dampen the recoil, but it's not a fix for bad technique. My point being is that a good shooter can take a stock rifle that is reasonably built and max out its potential. If you are using gear for a special purpose that's a different story, if you know how and why you are using what you are using, and it fills a void. If your abilities as a shooter is good enough that one feel the need to have an custom/accurized rifle, a custom rig can allow you to squeeze every last bit of accuracy out of it. Unfortunately a lot of factory rifles still shoot better than the average shooter.

I gotta disagree with the muzzlebrake and trigger comments. A muzzlebrake can definitely help on big calibers. You and I debated this a lot in the past, so I won't start up again
A light trigger takes another variable out, which is our goal. I would bet the best shooter in the world would handicap himself (or herself....sigh) with an 8lb trigger regardless of their technique.

 

[FEENIX]

It boils down to personal preference and intended purpose. A gun, custom or factory, does not make a shooter or define the "NUT" behind the trigger (remains the most factor). A couple of decades ago in NM, I did a last-minute check on 3 rifles (2 of which are for my sons) before the hunting season starts. Fired 3-shots each, packed the rifles and waited for the range to be safe and retrieved my targets. While waiting, I was admiring the rifle set-up by the shooter next to me. IIRC, it was a Blaser in .30-06 with beautiful furniture engraving in both metal and stock, topped with a Swaro scope. His set-up was probably 5X more expensive than the 3-rifles I have. He was having difficulties and keep adjusting the scope. He offered if I can shoot it for him and help him troubleshoot it. Of course, I gladly obliged.
back another day.

As I try to acquaint myself with his set-up and looked through the scope, he was all over the place at 100 yards. Fired 3-shots and they were .5-75 MOA with factory ammo (don't remember brand or bullet type). He fired 3 more shots but the result was the same as previous because he was flinching. He apparently has shot nearly 3 boxes. The best advice I can offer was to pack it and come.

As far as who is the smarter guy, the answer can be subjective.

 

[BallisticsGuy]

Fully custom rifles help make up for lacking skills (just help and not that much) and eliminate certain forms of bad luck.

Semi-custom rifles help make up for certain forms of bad luck and expose lacking skills.

Off-the-shelf rifles accentuate the effects of poor skills and bad luck.

 

[Rich Coyle]

What constitutes a custom? If one uses a factory action, his choice of stock, his choice of barrel, his choice of brake, his choice of trigger, his choice of pad, is that a custom? Or does one need to purchase an after market action to truly be custom?