Trued/tuned Savage vs. Trued/tuned Rem 700

[wilkup]

I know bigngreen builds an exceptionally high quality product. He built my last custom =) Toddc, I like how you spell everything out in your post and the responses that have been made by competent smiths so far... hopefully it keeps coming!

 

[RevJim]

I'm sorry...I "know" Savage is a solid performer...its just so "butt ugly"...I knew several girls from the past that were very sweet, great personality, knock out bodies...but so, well..."plain" it hurt your eyes! I guess it all depends upon what one 'really likes"...lol. I'm just 'forever more glad" I married a little Blond "Amazonette" 43 yrs ago! ha I also shoot Remington 700s and Mod 70s...a Mod 77 Hawkeye Ruger and one Browning BAR. I know" no accounting for taste"...

 

[wilkup]

I'm sorry...I "know" Savage is a solid performer...its just so "butt ugly"...I knew several girls from the past that were very sweet, great personality, knock out bodies...but so, well..."plain" it hurt your eyes! I guess it all depends upon what one 'really likes"...lol. I'm just 'forever more glad" I married a little Blond "Amazonette" 43 yrs ago! ha I also shoot Remington 700s and Mod 70s...a Mod 77 Hawkeye Ruger and one Browning BAR. I know" no accounting for taste"...

Hahahaha that might be the best post I've ever seen from a preacher... assuming you are one. I'm dying!

 

[Dgd6mm]

I like Savage's, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[MudRunner2005]

How do you accomplish this, I've used many methods and measured the results and can't figure out a way to do it correctly with out a lathe and the correct tooling?

Not sure how well it works, but if I had the money to blow, I'd give it a try. Might work good enough to keep me from a trip to the gunsmith. And as many rifles as I've paid to have built, it would have paid for the tools by now.

Especially if you buy short-chambered pre-fits, then finish out the chamber & headspacing with your own reamer and a set of go/no-go gauges.

RECEIVER ACCURIZING SYSTEM | Brownells
RECEIVER RING FACING CUTTER | Brownells
BOLT FACE TRUING TOOLS | Brownells

 

[rcoody]

I am a recent convert to the barrel nut clan

Long.time rem 700 user

I went to the barrel nut for the do it yourself aspect.

Here is my take on the savage action.

The cocking effort is ridiculous. Have.a target action at SSS being timed and trued as we speak. Hope Fred can improve it.

The accutrigger is no jewel. Having Fred install his benchrest trigger.

With a quality stock and aftermarket barrel the.rifle looks as nice as.any out.there. Barrel nut doesn't bother me.

As far as trueing.rem 700 style it.just.isnt.needed. the.floating bolt head takes care of that.

As.for.accuracy. results speak for themselves

Remington quality has fallen off a lot.in recent years.. if i were to build another one i would just buy a trued action, mcmillian stock, remage barrel (preferably bartlein or kriegar) and.a jewel trigger and put it.together myself

Next rifle i build will be.on the.mausingfield action from the.American Rifle.Company. It is a blend of all the best features of histories best rifles and uses savage prefits with a barrel nut.

 

[RevJim]

Hahahaha that might be the best post I've ever seen from a preacher... assuming you are one. I'm dying!

Oh...I "be" one, ha...right at 30yrs worth now. I have a wad of relatives down in East Texas that love the Savages. They are rough as a cobb on them too...strap them on a 4 wheeler, horse, drag them through the mud/rain...if it breaks, they just go to Academy and get another! ha

 

[toddc]

Only Savage I ever broke had a 34" full bull on it. Was about the 10th barrel on that action. Stripped the action to stock threads. Tig'ed 2 1/4-20 studs to the action and shot the heck out of it. Looked like an abortion but shot stupid good. Guy actually wanted it and bought it from me..IDK

 

[Predator 22]

How do you accomplish this, I've used many methods and measured the results and can't figure out a way to do it correctly with out a lathe and the correct tooling?

+1

The savage action is no different than any other action when it comes to accurizing only the different things you have to do to get everything true. I have built many rifles on both actions
and the final outcome is they both can be made to be very accurate if done correctly.

When accurizing/Blue printing different actions each one requires different things to reach the goal of everything being true to the bore and on the bore centerline. In order to get the Savage true I find that I have to just as many things to it as the Rem action, And in many cases More.

The bolt on the Savage is one of my issues because it has so many moving parts. (Not that this can't be overcome). I also don't like the looks and function of the barrel nut, so I eliminate it for reasons discussed on many previous post.

After ether action has been properly blueprinted, neither will out shine the other in the accuracy
department. so it just becomes a matter of what a person likes the looks of.

Quality cannot be replaced with convenience. Being convenient to assemble is not a reason to bypass a very important step in the search for accuracy.

The function of any action is to close the breach, so if everything is true and square, and the head space is the same, the chamber and barrel quality along with the ammo quality have the largest bearing on inherent accuracy. So the reason to accurized any action is to eliminate any detrimental effect it can have on the rifles accuracy so you can concentrate on other things that are controlling the accuracy of the rifle.


J E CUSTOM

Thank You!
I have tried to explain this before. All I get is "The floating bolt head takes care of that" I'm not a gunsmith but I do have a little bit of machining experience so I understand the concept. You can lap or "home true" the lugs, receiver face, nut, and lug to your hearts desire. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE SQUARE!
Now to the op's question. I also think Savages are beyond butt ugly. But they do shoot. To do it RIGHT you will have about the same money in either one. The Remington will have more options and will probably have a better resale value.
The savage will be way more user/diy friendly and the after market is coming on strong with products for them. I don't care for the tang safety but that's a personal preference.
If it were me I would bypass both of them and buy a Stiller. Best of both worlds. Remington accessories and you can still do a barrel nut.

 

[J E Custom]

I guess I should clear up a few points and reasons for the way I think and do things.

First I have an unfair advantage over most in that I can build a rifle from scratch that will out shoot me. the reason is simple.

Over 50 years ago, I was happy with any rifle that would shoot less than 1 MOA. the more I learned
the better they shot. I have built rifles using almost every action available and found out that they can all be very accurate if everything is true, and centered.

If a person wants to do it themselves the savage is a great way to go and is inexpensive. If that person puts all the parts together and shoots it like it is and is happy, that's all that counts. But if he takes that same rifle to one of the master gunsmiths like Mudrunner, he can make it shoot better
by going through it and truing it.

I have enough experience to know the value of great workmanship because of the evolution of my training and experiences trying to produce the most accurate rifles that I can. This is what I learned and the reason I believe that in search for excellence, You must leave no stone unturned. if every part/component is as close to perfect as possible and fed high quality ammo they will shoot better than the shooter.

You can take a factory rifle and Maybe 1 out of a hundred will shoot 1/2 MOA. All factory actions have tolerance issues no matter who makes them and they effect the total accuracy by some point.
Some times the parts that are not square can cancel each other out by being opposite each other and shoot well. But you can't depend on it happening, so you make everything as near perfect as possible so you can depend on it.

When you assemble a rifle without truing your chances of a 1/4 MOA rifle are slim. when the effort is made not only is 1/4 MOA possible, it is common. also instead of having one load that shoots, it is normal for them to like almost every type of ammo and when you do find the best load it will normally scare you how accurate it is.

I have come to expect less than 1/4 MOA and hope for - 1/10 MOA. Also on my wildcats where fire forming is required excellent accuracy is normal if the quality is built in. Most will shoot under 1/2 MOA while fire forming, so fire forming can take place while hunting, saving another step.

So is blue printing necessary ? some don't think so, but I do because I have seen the results time after time.

I will not build a rifle without truing the action because you cant depend on the outcome. I feel the same way about pillar bedding, I wont assemble any rifle without pillar bedding even if it has a insert/chassis for the same reason, you cant depend on it to fit the action and hold it in place 100% of the time.

This is not a Chevy versus ford case it is about consistent accuracy 100% of the time. My way may not be for everyone, but it works for me and I am my own worst critic.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[wilkup]

... The cocking effort is ridiculous. Have.a target action at SSS being timed and trued as we speak. Hope Fred can improve it.
The accutrigger is no jewel. Having Fred install his benchrest trigger....

What was the wait time?!
I'm very interested to hear how Fred's tune/trigger clean things up!
When do you get it back?! If that's the ticket, all my builds will be going there and be built off Savage target actions that are milled out to be repeaters because the barrel nut has never bothered me, it's the silly "bobbed" looking bolt shroud.

 

[toddc]

What was the wait time?!
I'm very interested to hear how Fred's tune/trigger clean things up!
When do you get it back?! If that's the ticket, all my builds will be going there and be built off Savage target actions that are milled out to be repeaters because the barrel nut has never bothered me, it's the silly "bobbed" looking bolt shroud.

Savage makes a target repeater. Fred isn't the fastest(WHat good smith is?) but I have seen 3 rifles he did and they are smoother than any stock rig and in the realm of some custom rigs. Most of the timing stuff can be accomplished at home if you are a tinkerer.
Some are smooth from the factory and some are like ya need a breaker bar.

 

[toddc]

I am a recent convert to the barrel nut clan

Long.time rem 700 user

I went to the barrel nut for the do it yourself aspect.

Here is my take on the savage action.

The cocking effort is ridiculous. Have.a target action at SSS being timed and trued as we speak. Hope Fred can improve it.

The accutrigger is no jewel. Having Fred install his benchrest trigger.

With a quality stock and aftermarket barrel the.rifle looks as nice as.any out.there. Barrel nut doesn't bother me.

As far as trueing.rem 700 style it.just.isnt.needed. the.floating bolt head takes care of that.

As.for.accuracy. results speak for themselves

Remington quality has fallen off a lot.in recent years.. if i were to build another one i would just buy a trued action, mcmillian stock, remage barrel (preferably bartlein or kriegar) and.a jewel trigger and put it.together myself

Next rifle i build will be.on the.mausingfield action from the.American Rifle.Company. It is a blend of all the best features of histories best rifles and uses savage prefits with a barrel nut.

Was that a RED BLADE?

 

[bigngreen]

Will, I will tell you how to fix a Savage target action if you want, my bench rest rifle is a Savage Target action with Right bolt, left load and left eject which I have converted to a right eject micro port. Original accutrigger running at 3 ounces without dropping the sear. Bolt runs with your finger tips. I've also made a drop port that is pretty cool that I could drop the little SS rounds out the bottom of the stock while loading one the left side.

You can make either action run good and just gotta give them the love they need. Both the Rem and the Savage run about the same run out the last one's I've checked. Run them with or without a nut, makes no difference as long as you use a quality one with a ground lug. I think it's worth squaring the the receiver face and the lugs to the center of the raceway of both receivers and clean up the back of the lugs on the bolt and the front of the bolt face on the Rem and replace the bolt head on the Savage with a PTG. Lapping lugs in has no place on a trued action. The Rem will need the handle removed and primary extraction timed and the Savage just shave a little of the bolt.
All that will be very little improvement over all compared to using a quality cut rifle barrel, if your wanting to just make a decent rifle yourself buy a great barrel, ground lug and quality nut and have fun cause it'll shoot once you get it nestled into a stock! I would really encourage you to get a Savage, they are a good way to get into the next level of hands on tuning and tinkering, if you have the coin I'd suggest a Bighorn action which will allow the same level of playing but it's already awesome sauce, don't get sucked into the Mausingfield it's a pile, the action face is far from flat and it needs toroidal lugs because of how poorly the bolt fits and they have to run a stupid light spring with short pin fall to get even a decent bolt lift, it's a full on mess!!!