Trued/tuned Savage vs. Trued/tuned Rem 700

[wilkup]

I'm thinking about putting together an inexpensive 6x47 Lapua to use as a fun paper puncher and varmint gun.

I can build a complete tuned and trued complete custom Savage for <$1000 that will most likely shoot <1/2 moa, at least based on my past experience. I can also do all the work myself (besides true and tune action).
The downside is, I think Savages are ugly rifles. lol I know that's a terrible reason not to shoot/own a rifle.

To build an equivalent rifle off the Rem 700, I'd be likely to spend the same or possibly more in parts. Then I'd have to pay a gunsmith to do all the work, because I don't have the equipment to thread, tune, true and chamber a barrel.

So, I'm curious what y'all's thoughts on the Savage experience is verses the 700. Is the additional cost worth it or should I just stop looking at the gun and start shooting it instead?

gun)

 

[wilkup]

I saw some pics over on the Alliance Custom Armory page that look pretty sweet...

Gallery of Guns

I could get into something like this... I just hate the bolt on the Savage!

 

[Wachsmann]

Alliance Custom Armory....

Any one ever used any of there rifle or had any work done by them. Nice looking rifles. Looks like some good custom work on them as well ( the paint jobs). just wonder how they shoot?

 

[Engineering101]

Full disclosure - I've got 6 Savage rifles and 0.000 Remingtons (though I do have an 870 which I love).

Hands down do the Savage. You don't true a Savage, they are designed so they don't need to be trued. About the only thing you can do along those lines is a precision ground thick recoil lug. The triggers are great/adjustable. They are the best major brand factory rifle there is for out of the box accuracy. Also, once you have shot out this barrel you are going to get you can easily put another one on it for zero $ spent at a gunsmith. As far as that goes you could buy three different chambered barrels and switch them around as needed. Talk about fun!

 

[toddc]

I'm a diehard barrel nut kinda guy.
You can true the action face, lugs, recoil lug and nut at home on a Savage.
You can do the same on a Remmy nowadays, just buy a Remage barrel and nut.
I haven't played with a Remmy since the 90s but I am thinking of going to Remington for the additional stocks offered and Jewell triggers. Just get the Remage barrel and voila.

I am gonna say do the Savage or a Remage since I don't like paying or waiting for a smith and I enjoy the DIY part of building my own rifle and being able to work on and trouble shoot it. The fact that ALL of the prefit barrel Savages I have built will go under .5 and most will hit under .3 is part of it.

I kinda tried to give the Remmy its due because otherwise this thread is gonna turn into a CAGE FIGHT lol.

 

[bigngreen]

You can true the action face, lugs, recoil lug and nut at home on a Savage.

How do you accomplish this, I've used many methods and measured the results and can't figure out a way to do it correctly with out a lathe and the correct tooling?

 

[wilkup]

How do you accomplish this, I've used many methods and measured the results and can't figure out a way to do it correctly with out a lathe and the correct tooling?

Any opinion regarding Savage vs. R700?

 

[wilkup]

Full disclosure - I've got 6 Savage rifles and 0.000 Remingtons (though I do have an 870 which I love).

Hands down do the Savage. You don't true a Savage, they are designed so they don't need to be trued. About the only thing you can do along those lines is a precision ground thick recoil lug. The triggers are great/adjustable. They are the best major brand factory rifle there is for out of the box accuracy. Also, once you have shot out this barrel you are going to get you can easily put another one on it for zero $ spent at a gunsmith. As far as that goes you could buy three different chambered barrels and switch them around as needed. Talk about fun!

Good to see the precision regarding the number of Remingtons you have lol
On a different note, where in Maple Valley are you? Do you hunt at all? And where do you head for long range shooting?

 

[J E Custom]

How do you accomplish this, I've used many methods and measured the results and can't figure out a way to do it correctly with out a lathe and the correct tooling?

+1

The savage action is no different than any other action when it comes to accurizing only the different things you have to do to get everything true. I have built many rifles on both actions
and the final outcome is they both can be made to be very accurate if done correctly.

When accurizing/Blue printing different actions each one requires different things to reach the goal of everything being true to the bore and on the bore centerline. In order to get the Savage true I find that I have to just as many things to it as the Rem action, And in many cases More.

The bolt on the Savage is one of my issues because it has so many moving parts. (Not that this can't be overcome). I also don't like the looks and function of the barrel nut, so I eliminate it for reasons discussed on many previous post.

After ether action has been properly blueprinted, neither will out shine the other in the accuracy
department. so it just becomes a matter of what a person likes the looks of.

Quality cannot be replaced with convenience. Being convenient to assemble is not a reason to bypass a very important step in the search for accuracy.

The function of any action is to close the breach, so if everything is true and square, and the head space is the same, the chamber and barrel quality along with the ammo quality have the largest bearing on inherent accuracy. So the reason to accurized any action is to eliminate any detrimental effect it can have on the rifles accuracy so you can concentrate on other things that are controlling the accuracy of the rifle.


J E CUSTOM

 

[Engineering101]

wilkup

I'm in a housing development above the Cedar River. I've hunted my whole life and still do though the years are winding down on that. I'm a member at the Cascade Shooting facilities which has lots of ranges up to 600 yards. For true long range (past 600 yards) I like to scout hunting spots in Eastern Washington and shoot rocks while practicing various field rests. However, since I was raised on it, I'm all about the meat. If I can get closer, I will. Unlike my nephew I won't be disappointed when the game ISN'T 1,000 yards away. I've shot a few at 1 yard and that was just fine with me. No meat damage when you shoot them in the head.

 

[wilkup]

+1

The savage action is no different than any other action when it comes to accurizing only the different things you have to do to get everything true. I have built many rifles on both actions
and the final outcome is they both can be made to be very accurate if done correctly.

When accurizing/Blue printing different actions each one requires different things to reach the goal of everything being true to the bore and on the bore centerline. In order to get the Savage true I find that I have to just as many things to it as the Rem action, And in many cases More.

The bolt on the Savage is one of my issues because it has so many moving parts. (Not that this can't be overcome). I also don't like the looks and function of the barrel nut, so I eliminate it for reasons discussed on many previous post.

After ether action has been properly blueprinted, neither will out shine the other in the accuracy
department. so it just becomes a matter of what a person likes the looks of.

Quality cannot be replaced with convenience. Being convenient to assemble is not a reason to bypass a very important step in the search for accuracy.

The function of any action is to close the breach, so if everything is true and square, and the head space is the same, the chamber and barrel quality along with the ammo quality have the largest bearing on inherent accuracy. So the reason to accurized any action is to eliminate any detrimental effect it can have on the rifles accuracy so you can concentrate on other things that are controlling the accuracy of the rifle.


J E CUSTOM

Thanks for clearly explaining all that for me =)
The convenience factor to replace barrels with the nut, which I don't mind, is the biggest reason I'm feeling pulled that direction. For a cheaper, mostly custom, fun gun, the Savage has grabbed my attention over other similar priced options and when I shoot the barrel out, I can headspace and replace without the help of a gunsmith, significantly cutting the cost in the long term.
This got me thinking last night, because I'm planning a custom build based off a 700 clone and realized I could save cash and just go Savage for both builds if there's no accuracy difference at the end of the day! Things to think about...

 

[Engineering101]

J E Custom

A question. If you have a hunting rifle that shoots 1" groups at 200 yards right out of the box why would you mess around with truing anything on it?

 

[toddc]

How do you accomplish this, I've used many methods and measured the results and can't figure out a way to do it correctly with out a lathe and the correct tooling?

You know better than I what is possible. Action face, recoil lug and nut is doable. Bolt lugs and recess are doable into 90+% contact.
I knew several smiths would read this which is why I was very specific as to what could be trued.
I know there is no way I can win this debate as you will always be able to reference that something is out of true to action threads or some other issue.
An action can have the face trued to the exterior stock it is built on, a recoil lug can be trued reasonably easy and a nut can be trued to 100% contact.
Bolt lugs can be lapped into high % contact with the recesses and can actually be home measured. I wont even spout the FLOATING BOLT HEAD crap as I don't want to use that as an excuse.

Will this process be what you are capable of? No as I cant recut threads if they are an issue.

I was actually hoping that anyone interested in home DIY Savages would do the research and see what is and IS NOT possible as I really don't want to write a 60 pg paper.

A home trued Savage or Remington/Remage WILL NOT be as TRUE as something a competent smith can produce since action threads are 100% out of the game and therefore the smith can always RIGHTFULLY CLAIM to have a superior product. Yes there are taps available but it wont help if your centerline is off. If the threads are on then you can get really close to a TRUED action.

Can a Savage be home trued into a .25 MOA rig with a good barrel? YES.
Have I seen IMPROVEMENTS by home truing a Savage? YES
Have I been able to measure said improvements, both with tooling and accuracy? YES
Could MOST smiths produce a better result? YES
Could some smiths produce a worse result? YES

Will a home trued Savage equal a GOOD SMITHS product? Depends what you started with and what your goals are. If the action threads start out true there is a good chance you will get VERY close.

A Savage will never be a Surgeon or Kelby or Nesika. Neither will a Remmy.

Home truing a Savage can produce a remarkably good shooting rig, but it won't be a custom like Bigngreen could build you....EVER.

Anyone wanting to know what can be done needs to research the issue and make up their own minds.
Bigngreen is correct in that he can do things we cant do at home, and he is a PROFESSIONAL and I am at BEST a tinkerer.

 

[toddc]

J E Custom

A question. If you have a hunting rifle that shoots 1" groups at 200 yards right out of the box why would you mess around with truing anything on it?

So that it will shoot 1/2" at 200?