Trigger magazine: 25 creedmoor - ultimate hybrid or ballistic bastard?

86alaskan

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A lot of fake news with a dash of voodoo sprinkled in. There are no 25 cal bullets that can run with the 6's and 6.5's. That's a hard cold fact. There are no 25 cal bullets anywhere close to .330 G7 BC. Cartridges do determine BC, sectional density and form factor do. You can't bend physics anymore than you can make water run uphill... which is a physics thing. The larger corporate manufacturers of ammo, bullets and guns spend a lot of money marketing their wares and you can bet any published BC's from Nosler, Hornady, Speer, etc are an exaggeration ( I was nice and didn't say lie)

Hey, I'm not knocking the Creed, it's a good little cartridge. But the 6 Creed and 6.5 Creed are going to be out shouting the 25 Creed for quite a while until the bullet makers star doing some R&D and produce some long, sleek, heavy for cal bullets in .257

Cheers
I hope this is a joke, or maybe you haven't read anything that is going on with these BlackJack bullets. This bullet alone crushed the 6creed and the 6.5. There is no way a 6.5 creed can run a 147 anywhere near fast enough to keep up with the 131.
 

MontanaRifleman

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I hope this is a joke, or maybe you haven't read anything that is going on with these BlackJack bullets. This bullet alone crushed the 6creed and the 6.5. There is no way a 6.5 creed can run a 147 anywhere near fast enough to keep up with the 131.
Actually, I hadn't heard of the Blackjack 131 gr 25 cal bullet when I made my post in this thread. It looks a good high BC bullet, That said, it is no .370 G7 BC bullet. IF you're referring to the 6.5 147 Hornady bullet, it is in no way a .351 G7 BC. Nosler and Hornady are notorious for exaggerating their BC's. That's the marketing game.

Maybe you know this and maybe you don't.. When a cartridge is necked down, there is a loss of efficiency, both in internal and external ballisitics. The smaller necked down case (25 Creed) cannot push the same weight bullet that the larger case (6.5 Creed) can push with the same amount powder/PSI at the same velocity... internal ballistics. When bullet caliber is increased, sectional density is increased with bullets of similar form factor, so.. larger cal bullets with same form factor as smaller cal bullets will have better BC's... external ballistics.

I.e. Bergers
7mm 184 F-open Hybrd, SD .326, G7 FF .937, G7 BC .356
.308 230 hybrid Target, SD .346, G7 FF .941, G7 BC .368

The 131 Blackjack puts the 25 Creed into the same ballpark as the 6.5 Creed but there is no way that it is a .370 G7 BC vs the Berger 6.5 140 Hybrid which is a .311 G7 BC
 

lee31

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A lot of fake news with a dash of voodoo sprinkled in. There are no 25 cal bullets that can run with the 6's and 6.5's. That's a hard cold fact. There are no 25 cal bullets anywhere close to .330 G7 BC. Cartridges do determine BC, sectional density and form factor do. You can't bend physics anymore than you can make water run uphill... which is a physics thing. The larger corporate manufacturers of ammo, bullets and guns spend a lot of money marketing their wares and you can bet any published BC's from Nosler, Hornady, Speer, etc are an exaggeration ( I was nice and didn't say lie)

Hey, I'm not knocking the Creed, it's a good little cartridge. But the 6 Creed and 6.5 Creed are going to be out shouting the 25 Creed for quite a while until the bullet makers star doing some R&D and produce some long, sleek, heavy for cal bullets in .257

Cheers
Umm where have you been for the last year? Blackjack already has a bullet out that's outrunning both the 6mm and 6.5mm parent cartridges of the 25 Creedmoor as well as any other similar case.
 

lee31

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Actually, I hadn't heard of the Blackjack 131 gr 25 cal bullet when I made my post in this thread. It looks a good high BC bullet, That said, it is no .370 G7 BC bullet. IF you're referring to the 6.5 147 Hornady bullet, it is in no way a .351 G7 BC. Nosler and Hornady are notorious for exaggerating their BC's. That's the marketing game.

Maybe you know this and maybe you don't.. When a cartridge is necked down, there is a loss of efficiency, both in internal and external ballisitics. The smaller necked down case (25 Creed) cannot push the same weight bullet that the larger case (6.5 Creed) can push with the same amount powder/PSI at the same velocity... internal ballistics. When bullet caliber is increased, sectional density is increased with bullets of similar form factor, so.. larger cal bullets with same form factor as smaller cal bullets will have better BC's... external ballistics.

I.e. Bergers
7mm 184 F-open Hybrd, SD .326, G7 FF .937, G7 BC .356
.308 230 hybrid Target, SD .346, G7 FF .941, G7 BC .368

The 131 Blackjack puts the 25 Creed into the same ballpark as the 6.5 Creed but there is no way that it is a .370 G7 BC vs the Berger 6.5 140 Hybrid which is a .311 G7 BC
Actually, I hadn't heard of the Blackjack 131 gr 25 cal bullet when I made my post in this thread. It looks a good high BC bullet, That said, it is no .370 G7 BC bullet. IF you're referring to the 6.5 147 Hornady bullet, it is in no way a .351 G7 BC. Nosler and Hornady are notorious for exaggerating their BC's. That's the marketing game.

Maybe you know this and maybe you don't.. When a cartridge is necked down, there is a loss of efficiency, both in internal and external ballisitics. The smaller necked down case (25 Creed) cannot push the same weight bullet that the larger case (6.5 Creed) can push with the same amount powder/PSI at the same velocity... internal ballistics. When bullet caliber is increased, sectional density is increased with bullets of similar form factor, so.. larger cal bullets with same form factor as smaller cal bullets will have better BC's... external ballistics.

I.e. Bergers
7mm 184 F-open Hybrd, SD .326, G7 FF .937, G7 BC .356
.308 230 hybrid Target, SD .346, G7 FF .941, G7 BC .368

The 131 Blackjack puts the 25 Creed into the same ballpark as the 6.5 Creed but there is no way that it is a .370 G7 BC vs the Berger 6.5 140 Hybrid which is a .311 G7 BC
With the way the bullet is designed it'll run 2959- 3050 in a creedmoor case. I'm shooting a 25-284 and am pushing 131s at 3167fps. The claimed g7bc is .330 but from my experiences it's closer to .345 others are claiming.350 G7bc.
 

MontanaRifleman

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With the way the bullet is designed it'll run 2959- 3050 in a creedmoor case. I'm shooting a 25-284 and am pushing 131s at 3167fps. The claimed g7bc is .330 but from my experiences it's closer to .345 others are claiming.350 G7bc.
MY bad, I thought I had read they were claiming a .370 G7. That said,
I'm not dismissing your field experiences but at the same time I would be VERY surprised that the BJ 131 BC is greater than the Berger 6.5 140 Hybrid
 

MudRunner2005

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MY bad, I thought I had read they were claiming a .370 G7. That said,
I'm not dismissing your field experiences but at the same time I would be VERY surprised that the BJ 131 BC is greater than the Berger 6.5 140 Hybrid
Why? It's thinner in diameter, weighs 9 grains less (can be pushed faster), has a hybrid ogive, longer boat tail, and has better aerodynamics...Naturally, it will have a better BC if pushed faster than a 6.5 140 Hybrid.
 

lee31

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Why? It's thinner in diameter, weighs 9 grains less (can be pushed faster), has a hybrid ogive, longer boat tail, and has better aerodynamics...Naturally, it will have a better BC if pushed faster than a 6.5 140 Hybrid.
And it's longer than the 140 Berger vld hunter. So I'm gonna go out on a limb and say yeah it's got a higher bc than the Berger 140. Oh and I know it takes my 25-284 the same dope as my 264 that shoots 125fps faster to get to 1000yards. As mud has stated before the days of the 257 playing second fiddle are over.
 

MudRunner2005

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And it's longer than the 140 Berger vld hunter. So I'm gonna go out on a limb and say yeah it's got a higher bc than the Berger 140. Oh and I know it takes my 25-284 the same dope as my 264 that shoots 125fps faster to get to 1000yards. As mud has stated before the days of the 257 playing second fiddle are over.
Yep, and just as predicted, the 6.5mm fanboys just can't handle it. They don't like sharing that limelight. Not at all. :D
 

CA48

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IMG_7194.JPG

131gr ACE .257 1.440" left

140gr Berger VLD-H .264 1.390" right.

I dial 19.2 moa at 1000 yards running the ace at 3200fps with my 25 SST. DA 2000' 100 yd zero. That drop is right on par with a 28Nos shooting 195s at 3050. Drop at 1000 with the 6.5SS shooting the 140s at 3180fps is 20.5 moa
 

MontanaRifleman

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View attachment 127285
131gr ACE .257 1.440" left

140gr Berger VLD-H .264 1.390" right.

I dial 19.2 moa at 1000 yards running the ace at 3200fps with my 25 SST. DA 2000' 100 yd zero. That drop is right on par with a 28Nos shooting 195s at 3050. Drop at 1000 with the 6.5SS shooting the 140s at 3180fps is 20.5 moa
Good Pic, the 131 ACE definitely appears to have the better form factor
 

MontanaRifleman

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Yep, and just as predicted, the 6.5mm fanboys just can't handle it. They don't like sharing that limelight. Not at all. :D
Mud, if that's directed at me, i'm not particularly a fan of any caliber. They all have a niche. I've seen a lot of hype and exaggeration in my time and I try to do my homework and stay as objective as possible.
 

MudRunner2005

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Mud, if that's directed at me, i'm not particularly a fan of any caliber. They all have a niche. I've seen a lot of hype and exaggeration in my time and I try to do my homework and stay as objective as possible.
Nope, generalized statement based on quite a few responses over the last few years from several folks about how the .257 caliber needed/needs an upgrade and to be brought into modern times. That's the reason that the .257 Blackjack bullet hasn't even really shown up on the gun rag editor radar. That .25CM ad would have been a perfect time to show-off a brand new bullet and cartridge. It's a game changer, but they're allegiances are to all-hail Whorenady and their cartridges and what Whorenady says is the best. If Whorenady didn't make it, they don't want to promote it, because it will never be good enough.
 

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