Terminal performance of bullets

[RockyMtnMT]

I am not sure how to grab a photo from another thread so maybe Roy will add his photo to this thread.

Roy tested the Hammer Hunter .375 395g bullet into his bullet catching media for testing terminal performance of bullets. The bullet split from nose to base into several large pieces. This is not my preferred terminal performance. It causes more damage than I like. We tested this type of bullet on a couple of deer last fall with 30cal bullets. They simply turned the chest cavity into soup. They cause more collateral damage than I like. I know a lot of people will really like this type of performance. So the conversation that we have been having is weather or not to have two lines of hunting bullet. One line that is higher weight retention roughly 80% with the nose shedding petals. The other where the bullet splits into three large pieces nose to base with a few smaller pieces. Our testing has shown the same thing that Roy encountered. The bullet splits into 30 large pieces and they stay on track with deep penetration and a combined large wound channel.

I would like to have the LRH forum member chime in on this and give their opinions. What type of bullet terminal performance do you prefer?

Right now I am fairly sure that we will do two lines. They would be identical in every way other than what they do on impact. There would be roughly a .5 grain difference in weight depending on the size of the bullet due to the density of the material. Both materials are completely lead free and more than 99% pure copper.

Thanks for your help.

Steve

 

[HammerB1]

First, I want to give Roy a BIG thank you for spending time with our bullets. What he has found is what we have experienced also. The variations in copper make all the difference in what happens upon impact. The copper he tested in the 375 is a more brittle copper so it peels to the boattail which creates a big mess inside of an animal. As Steve said, this is not what we prefer but I know some of you guys want this kind of performance. I know my son shot a whitetail with these and we had to throw away the off shoulder, BUT it did not take a step.

What we prefer is a bullet that will stay together from drill depth after is loses its nose within a couple inches of penetration. These bullets will have good weight retention and will not leave such a mess inside an animal, also will almost always pass through. Wound channel will be big which creates a clean kill also and you still have meat left.

So please chime in and let us know what you prefer.
Thanks
Brian

 

[Pdvdh]

I tend toward preferring the deeper penetration solid shank. How lethal have those been in .308/.338 on game animals to date? The version with the shorter petals that shear off and leave the solid rear shank for deeper penetration.

On the 400gr .375, the petals look pretty large. The complete separation of that heavy bullet might work good on large game in the States. Heavy enough petals for deeper penetrations.

Anyhow, help us out a little more by describing your experiences with both bullets on game to date. Have you shot an elk or moose-sized game animals with the splitter bullet that Roy shared photos of?

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I tend toward preferring the deeper penetration solid shank. How lethal have those been in .308/.338 on game animals to date? The version with the shorter petals that shear off and leave the solid rear shank for deeper penetration.

On the 400gr .375, the petals look pretty large. The complete separation of that heavy bullet might work good on large game in the States. Heavy enough petals for deeper penetrations.

Anyhow, help us out a little more by describing your experiences with both bullets on game to date. Have you shot an elk or moose-sized game animals with the splitter bullet that Roy shared photos of?

No big animals. We shot 6 elk and one moose with the heavier weight retention style. All quick kills but two. Those two needed finishers. One was hit high in the spine and needed a second. The other hit a branch first and needed a finisher. We knew what we liked for bullet performance so did not use the more fragmenting bullet much.

Steve

 

[snox801]

It's a tough call kinda depends on what hit hunting. I love the crazy explosion your talking about but certain animals and times the other is great. When in doubt I always go for the one that will drive through.

 

[royinidaho]

I am setting up for further down range fun. It's a real time and effort eater to locate them target,, get the correct drop for that specific range (determine actual be for this specific barrel) then hauling there media container for their terminal performance check.

I hope to take things to a distance where those bign suckers don't open at all.

Gotta get a bit more time on my horse as I can't use an A TV due to fences. Once "Pink" is used to dragging large objects, 4' x 4' target holder with a rope things will speed up. I'd use one of my donks but hell, I can walk faster than they will.. And shank's pony is getting a bit long in the tooth.

 

[doverpack12]

First, I want to give Roy a BIG thank you for spending time with our bullets. What he has found is what we have experienced also. The variations in copper make all the difference in what happens upon impact. The copper he tested in the 375 is a more brittle copper so it peels to the boattail which creates a big mess inside of an animal. As Steve said, this is not what we prefer but I know some of you guys want this kind of performance. I know my son shot a whitetail with these and we had to throw away the off shoulder, BUT it did not take a step.

What we prefer is a bullet that will stay together from drill depth after is loses its nose within a couple inches of penetration. These bullets will have good weight retention and will not leave such a mess inside an animal, also will almost always pass through. Wound channel will be big which creates a clean kill also and you still have meat left.

So please chime in and let us know what you prefer.
Thanks
Brian

What you describe here as your preferred bullet is mine as well. I am a firm believer in this type of bullet for any animal over the size of a Mule Deer. I just don't think with the more frangible types you get the penetration on a quartering shot necessary. Sure they all work when perfect broadside shots are taken but on angled shots I have not had near the performance I would like. I am back to your preferred bullet type now and look forward to trying these out this year.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I can't wait Roy. You kill me with anticipation. Did some quick calculations and I am guessing 1200y to 1500y will be the max working distance. We will see how good a guess I am.

I know Roy did the same media test with the small 117g .270 at 300 yards and had the same results and similar penetration. That .270 was made from the same alloy as the big .375. When Roy gets around to the 307g .308 that one is of our preferred alloy. It has seemed over the years here on LRH that most guys like the explosive bullets that have fist size or bigger exit holes. These will most definitely do that. It is just not my preferred terminal performance.

Thanks guys for the input. So far the frangible bullet guys have not said much. Keep the opinions coming. We need the input to make decisions on how much raw copper to have on hand and what type.

Steve

 

[Laelkhunter]

When Elk hunting, I personally prefer a bullet that holds together. I have taken 25 Bulls using the Nosler Partition and the one last year (2015) with a Swift A-Frame.

 

[can1010]

hi steve. I just purchased the 156 .277 to try which alloy are those. it don't make a difference . just don't want to have wrong expectations

 

[RockyMtnMT]

hi steve. I just purchased the 156 .277 to try which alloy are those. it don't make a difference . just don't want to have wrong expectations

Thank you,

Those are cut from the more frangible material. They will shoot identical with either. In the future it appears that they will be offered both ways. My thinking before now was to move the line completely over to the less frangible material and abandon the more frangible. The more frangible material at higher vel will not come apart so violently. It actually behaves less violently at higher vel. It will shed the nose and square the front like I prefer. As the impact vel gets about 2800fps and lower the bullet tends to tear into 3 or 4 full length pieces that still retain enough weight to penetrate deeply.

They should be on a truck today headed your way. Shoot them and let us know what you think.

Steve

 

[can1010]

thanks steve. I like the idea of both. as for high velocity they will be around 3300 maybe more. cant wait to do some accuracy and penetration tests.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

thanks steve. I like the idea of both. as for high velocity they will be around 3300 maybe more. cant wait to do some accuracy and penetration tests.

Feel free to post your results. This helps us and everyone else learn. Like I said back when we launched, with everyone's input, we will manufacture the best bullet possible.

Steve

 

[Plinker147]

I personally like a bullet that holds about 50% retention. I shot a ton on elk with these type bullets and I feel you get a quicker better kill than with a high retention. For what we hunt in US there really isn't a huge need for high retention bullets. Also price for high retention bullets is usually more.

That's my opinion but it just that. I don't think anyone can say one kills better than the other between high retention and fragmenting bullets. In different situations each has an advantage over the other.

If you are able to produce both types I think you should and let the market decide. I see a huge advantage if you have a load work up for your high retention bullets and a guys decides for a particular hunt wants more frangible type, you can just buy the other type and not have to work up another load. I think that would be a great option to have.