Switch from ATACR?

[Gamesniper19]

My new 300 PRC with K624i.......Love it!

View attachment 275925View attachment 275926View attachment 275927

Yup - one of mine. Wildcat 7mm PRC topped with a Kahles 624

 

[Northkill]

Have had both an ATACR and 624 - Hard to save too much weight without sacrificing something and if you want the best of everything on a high end LR rifle, you have to be willing to carry some extra weight. Love Leupold, nightforce, and other scopes and after owning and seeing them side by side, I bought a Kahles. The benefits were so prominent, I went and bought 7 more 624 scopes for the rest of my LR Rifles. Kahles is the tactical line from Swaro. You get the best swaro glass, the best function, and it weighs a few ounces less. Snipers Hide did a test on function and both the 624 scored best

The Kahles 624 does look interesting... So many choices.

 

[jraulsten]

The Kahles 624 does look interesting... So many choices.

Beauty of the K624i is that you can now get a 3K+ quality scope for just over 2K. I was amazed at the deals you can get now that the K525i has sort of taken over.

 

[Northkill]

Beauty of the K624i is that you can now get a 3K+ quality scope for just over 2K. I was amazed at the deals you can get now that the K525i has sort of taken over.

Where do you find deals like that? I'm seeing $2,500.

 

[jraulsten]

Where do you find deals like that? I'm seeing $2,500.

Give them a call and most will come down on price. Doug or Neil at Camera Land will hook you up.

 

[Northkill]

..and is there any performance difference from the K525i to the K624i other than the power range? Like I said before, I do have a K525i to reference against... Note the weight difference from the 525 to the 624 is less than an ounce.

Here's some specs for reference:
4-20 ATACR: (35.2 oz) (13.9" long) (FOV 23.6' – 6.1')
5-25 ATACR: (38 oz) (15.37" long) (FOV 18.7' – 4.92')
NX8 4-32: (28.6 oz) (13.4" long) (FOV 26.1' - 8.7')
K624i: (33.5 oz) (15.9" long) (FOV 20' - 5.1')
K525i: (34.2 oz) (14.8" long) (FOV 21.3' – 4.5')
Mark 5 3.6-18: (26 oz) (12.06" long) (FOV 28.4' – 5.8')
Mark 5 5-25: (30 oz) (15.67" long) (FOV 20.5' – 4.2')
March FX-T 4.5-28: (29.8 oz) (12.5" long) (FOV 29.1' – 4.68')
March F-T 3-24: (24.51 oz) (13.23" long) (FOV 35' – 4.3')
March C-T 2.5-25: (24.5 oz) (13.31" long) (FOV 42' – 4.2')
Leica PRS 5-30: (36.3 oz) (14.37" long) (FOV 27' – 4.26')
Zeiss V4 6-24: (24.4 oz) (14.5" long) (FOV 19' – 4.8')
US Optics B-25 5-25: (33.38 oz) (17.93" long) (FOV 16.08' – 5.2')
US Optics TS 5-25 (30mm): (27.3 oz) (14.17" long) (FOV 19.8' – 4.2')
US Optics TS 2.5-20: (28.7 oz) (14.64" long) (FOV 42' – 6.6')

Any to add? What you think of the US Optics?

Give them a call and most will come down on price. Doug or Neil at Camera Land will hook you up.

Thanks.

 

[Allen Kitts]

Yup - one of mine. Wildcat 7mm PRC topped with a Kahles 624
View attachment 275938

That a nice looking rifle

 

[Gamesniper19]

..and is there any performance difference from the K525i to the K624i other than the power range? Like I said before, I do have a K525i to reference against... Note the weight difference from the 525 to the 624 is less than an ounce.

Here's some specs for reference:
4-20 ATACR: (35.2 oz) (13.9" long) (FOV 23.6' – 6.1')
5-25 ATACR: (38 oz) (15.37" long) (FOV 18.7' – 4.92')
NX8 4-32: (28.6 oz) (13.4" long) (FOV 26.1' - 8.7')
K624i: (33.5 oz) (15.9" long) (FOV 20' - 5.1')
K525i: (34.2 oz) (14.8" long) (FOV 21.3' – 4.5')
Mark 5 3.6-18: (26 oz) (12.06" long) (FOV 28.4' – 5.8')
Mark 5 5-25: (30 oz) (15.67" long) (FOV 20.5' – 4.2')
March FX-T 4.5-28: (29.8 oz) (12.5" long) (FOV 29.1' – 4.68')
March F-T 3-24: (24.51 oz) (13.23" long) (FOV 35' – 4.3')
March C-T 2.5-25: (24.5 oz) (13.31" long) (FOV 42' – 4.2')
Leica PRS 5-30: (36.3 oz) (14.37" long) (FOV 27' – 4.26')
Zeiss V4 6-24: (24.4 oz) (14.5" long) (FOV 19' – 4.8')
US Optics B-25 5-25: (33.38 oz) (17.93" long) (FOV 16.08' – 5.2')
US Optics TS 5-25 (30mm): (27.3 oz) (14.17" long) (FOV 19.8' – 4.2')
US Optics TS 2.5-20: (28.7 oz) (14.64" long) (FOV 42' – 6.6')

Any to add? What you think of the US Optics?

Thanks.

My takeaway from this well documented data.
Like magnification, like performance = like weight and build quality. There is a reason most high performance optics that provide useable magnification above 24X all weigh about the same (+/- a few ounces) To get that performance the industry is telling us the scope has to have certain types and amount of glass and certain internal working parts. If a manufacturer could get that equal performance using materials that were 25% less weight, my sense would be that they would.
Example: Nighforce tried and as much as I love what they do, the NX8 loses optical clarity above 24x.

My thing is on a 9lb fully custom hunting rifle, one that has the capability to reach out 1000 yards + with match grade 1/2 min or better accuracy, use like grade optics. Pick one and if it weighs 4-6 ounces more than some "lightweight" glass - 90% of the time you wont care that your rifle weighs 9 lbs versus 9.4 lbs. Can you find an outlier, sure you can. There always will be e.g. the Leica PRS...but I know no one that shoots PRS with one. Unless Leica sponsors them.

To answer your question on 525 v 624.
I called Kahles because side by side I could tell no practical difference in the glass between the models. I am not sure to the naked eye that many people could; Kahles confirmed that top end HD glass reaches about 2.1 megapixels of resolution and its hard to get much more. The human eye can only see so much acuity and its a varying measurement based on multiple factors that cannot be standardized due to whether a person has 20/10 or 20/30 vision and can many times see "better" than a scope can transmit so there is a point of return that we cannot perceived. The big difference is light and color transmission.

The glass's ability to filter and transmit light in the 93% + range is a big factor in perceived clarity. Add in the types of multi coatings applied to the glass which can accentuate the impression of more clarity, to a point. The quality of the coatings matters. Its all important. More light, more clear, more resolution and more, more, more and more etc...

Function wise Kahles told me the 525 has updated internals but what exactly they updated and how, they would not tell me. IME if a scope tracks reliably then the internals work. I set up an tracking board and tested all my 624s and no matter how many times I spun the turrets, they were spot on. I mean perfect. Confidence now abounds when I lay down behind them and dial dope.

I bought 7 with like reticles and like LH adjustments to ensure that no matter what rifle I use, every time I look through the glass it is exactly the same as every other rifle. My brain has to do nothing except trust my dope and shoot.
IMO something like a Kahles 624 that I can find on a deal for 2100 bucks - SOLD

 

[Gamesniper19]

That a nice looking rifle

Thank you - appreciate that

 

[naja302]

I've got Mark 5 HD's I'd happily trade for ATACRs any day...hit me up if you're interested. I've got the 3-18, 5-25 and 7-35...all gotta go

 

[Eeegadd]

This is going on a Gunwerks 7-LRM Magnus that has the 5-25 ATACR on it now. Looking to shave some weight without sacrificing too much performance…. Maybe I'd even be happy with the Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18x44? (I like the weight! But would like a little more power.) Zeiss? March? Most of my experience is with the NF's. Really like their solid turret system. Mine has the Mil-R C546 reticle which I would like to duplicate in some degree. Low-light performance is important to me as well as a critical hunting asset.

Longest shooting is at steel 1,000 – 1,500 yds – but only on occasion. Mostly hunting – mountain and prairie... Big game shots up to (rare) 1,000+ yds. - most between 100 - 500 yds.

Anxious to hear from this group of pros and their collective experience.

Stay safe and do some good today.

You have the most popular scope amongst the long range pros. The 5hd has very high ratings and would be a good fit. Personally id go with the higher magnification.

 

[Northkill]

My takeaway from this well documented data.
Like magnification, like performance = like weight and build quality. There is a reason most high performance optics that provide useable magnification above 24X all weigh about the same (+/- a few ounces) To get that performance the industry is telling us the scope has to have certain types and amount of glass and certain internal working parts. If a manufacturer could get that equal performance using materials that were 25% less weight, my sense would be that they would.
Example: Nighforce tried and as much as I love what they do, the NX8 loses optical clarity above 24x.

My thing is on a 9lb fully custom hunting rifle, one that has the capability to reach out 1000 yards + with match grade 1/2 min or better accuracy, use like grade optics. Pick one and if it weighs 4-6 ounces more than some "lightweight" glass - 90% of the time you wont care that your rifle weighs 9 lbs versus 9.4 lbs. Can you find an outlier, sure you can. There always will be e.g. the Leica PRS...but I know no one that shoots PRS with one. Unless Leica sponsors them.

To answer your question on 525 v 624.
I called Kahles because side by side I could tell no practical difference in the glass between the models. I am not sure to the naked eye that many people could; Kahles confirmed that top end HD glass reaches about 2.1 megapixels of resolution and its hard to get much more. The human eye can only see so much acuity and its a varying measurement based on multiple factors that cannot be standardized due to whether a person has 20/10 or 20/30 vision and can many times see "better" than a scope can transmit so there is a point of return that we cannot perceived. The big difference is light and color transmission.

The glass's ability to filter and transmit light in the 93% + range is a big factor in perceived clarity. Add in the types of multi coatings applied to the glass which can accentuate the impression of more clarity, to a point. The quality of the coatings matters. Its all important. More light, more clear, more resolution and more, more, more and more etc...

Function wise Kahles told me the 525 has updated internals but what exactly they updated and how, they would not tell me. IME if a scope tracks reliably then the internals work. I set up an tracking board and tested all my 624s and no matter how many times I spun the turrets, they were spot on. I mean perfect. Confidence now abounds when I lay down behind them and dial dope.

I bought 7 with like reticles and like LH adjustments to ensure that no matter what rifle I use, every time I look through the glass it is exactly the same as every other rifle. My brain has to do nothing except trust my dope and shoot.
IMO something like a Kahles 624 that I can find on a deal for 2100 bucks - SOLD

Outstanding report. I appreciate the objective way you come across. A lot of common sense to work from. I have an NXS 5.5-22x56 on my 6.5-284 that I'm going to replace with the NX8 4-32 to give it a try. This will help me decide if I'll be satisfied with it's performance in lieu of the ATACR on my 7-LRM or if I should consider something else. The 7-LRM has the older McMillan stock which I'm thinking to replace with the newer Clymr to cut some weight that way. We'll see.

Still wish I could hear from someone who has experience with US Optics AND NF ATACR or Kahles. It's expensive to do all the real-world comparos oneself. That's what this forum is all about - comparing notes and sharing experiences to the benefit of the whole. Appreciate what I've gotten so far. Thanks.

 

[naja302]

I always thought USO was a top tier scope (and they may be) but I attended a national 2 day prs competition that had a ton of stuff on the prize table including 3 coupons for 1/2 off USO scopes. Nobody wanted to pick those up and they stayed till the bitter end...FWIW

 

[Gamesniper19]

Outstanding report. I appreciate the objective way you come across. A lot of common sense to work from. I have an NXS 5.5-22x56 on my 6.5-284 that I'm going to replace with the NX8 4-32 to give it a try. This will help me decide if I'll be satisfied with it's performance in lieu of the ATACR on my 7-LRM or if I should consider something else. The 7-LRM has the older McMillan stock which I'm thinking to replace with the newer Clymr to cut some weight that way. We'll see.

Still wish I could hear from someone who has experience with US Optics AND NF ATACR or Kahles. It's expensive to do all the real-world comparos oneself. That's what this forum is all about - comparing notes and sharing experiences to the benefit of the whole. Appreciate what I've gotten so far. Thanks.

Appreciate that
I do have experience with ATACR and Kahles side by side. Included Schmidt Bender in the lot too....chose Kahles. No experience with USO