Squared and Trued 700 VS Blueprinted

[Susquatch]

I will have a gunsmith or manufacture install the barrel and true the action. I want a walnut stock and plan to perchase a semi- inlet and finish from there. I have some basic knowledge of the process of beading and installing pillars, but wint attempt the important stuff. This way the stock should be the weakest link and I can always burn it it the fireplace to hide the evidence of my failure......then order a McMillan

Too funny! Love your attitude!

My very first attempt at custom building was a plain walnut stock I refinished 60 years ago. I did a few more after that for friends.

A few years later, I handcarved a stock based on a beautiful walnut blank. It was ok, but I wasn't happy with it. So I learned from my mistakes and carved another one out of a drop dead gorgeous piece of Claro walnut. This one was MUCH better!

I got rid of the first one. However, the fancy wood on the second one kept moving on me.4 I tried pillars and glass bedding. Much better but still needed rebedding every few years. Eventually I milled out the receiver area using a plain old drill press and epoxied in an aluminium bedding block. That did the trick. Some time after that I had Ed Shilen install a barrel on it for me. He did the smithing himself. I still have it and it still shoots flies. My kids fight over who will get that rifle when God calls me.

Enjoy playing with your toys. Life is short.

 

[Old Rooster]

Very interesting thread.
Thanks Susquatch for the reply on the bolt bushings.
Back in the early 70's I made a mistake and picked up a bolt action Holland & Holland rifle that costs more than my house but the bolt glided through the action like it was on bearings with no slop.
That's why every time I pick up any factory rifle especially a Savage I feel let down compared to the expensive Holland & Holland I looked at all those years ago.I should have not even picked up that rifle!
Is there a way to have the same slickness and tight tolorances without spending 30,000.00?
Old Rooster

 

[GunHawk]

I once gave a speech at a conference where the speaker before me was the VP of engineering at Pratt & Whitney. He compared automotive engineering to aerospace and talked about how lousy car engines are because they breakdown so frequently while his engines don't. He made one huge mistake - he spoke before me...... I simply pointed out that car engines cost a few hundred bucks and his cost many million. The auto industry COULD make engines every bit as reliable as the aerospace industry, but nobody could afford them.

Do me a favour and let me know how you made out when you are done making your action! We could get together and have a few good laughs over even more beers!

 

[GunHawk]

Very interesting thread.
Thanks Susquatch for the reply on the bolt bushings.
Back in the early 70's I made a mistake and picked up a bolt action Holland & Holland rifle that costs more than my house but the bolt glided through the action like it was on bearings with no slop.
That's why every time I pick up any factory rifle especially a Savage I feel let down compared to the expensive Holland & Holland I looked at all those years ago.I should have not even picked up that rifle!
Is there a way to have the same slickness and tight tolorances without spending 30,000.00?
Old Rooster

Yes...SAKO!

 

[Susquatch]

Very interesting thread.
Thanks Susquatch for the reply on the bolt bushings.
Back in the early 70's I made a mistake and picked up a bolt action Holland & Holland rifle that costs more than my house but the bolt glided through the action like it was on bearings with no slop.
That's why every time I pick up any factory rifle especially a Savage I feel let down compared to the expensive Holland & Holland I looked at all those years ago.I should have not even picked up that rifle!
Is there a way to have the same slickness and tight tolorances without spending 30,000.00?
Old Rooster

I agree with Omar, the Sako 85 is pretty darn slick feeling. The three lugs and guiding rail make it slide like greased lightning. The only problem with the Sako is their hit and miss bedding. About half the Sakos I've seen shot quite well. But some don't. Unfortunately, I have not had too much success at making them shoot when they don't. IMHO, the bedding method they use sucks. And my guess is that bedding is the problem because I can usually make significant improvements just by playing with the action screw torque.

I also like the way the Browning XBolts feel. They also have three lugs and use these plastic buttons on the bolt to improve the feel - it works! But again, they don't always shoot well and fixing them is no piece of cake when they don't.

If you have the coin (under 5k for a really nice one) consider a Cooper. They feel pretty darn good, almost all of them shoot out of the box, and fixing them if they don't is not all that hard.

Many of the custom actions feel awesome too. And they ALL SHOOT! I particularly like the Pierce and the Defiance. Neither one feels as nice as a Sako, but they both feel pretty darn good! Best of all, they will both shoot rings around any Sako I've ever laid my hands on.

 

[bdlesh]

Too funny! Love your attitude!

My very first attempt at custom building was a plain walnut stock I refinished 60 years ago. I did a few more after that for friends.

A few years later, I handcarved a stock based on a beautiful walnut blank. It was ok, but I wasn't happy with it. So I learned from my mistakes and carved another one out of a drop dead gorgeous piece of Claro walnut. This one was MUCH better!

I got rid of the first one. However, the fancy wood on the second one kept moving on me.4 I tried pillars and glass bedding. Much better but still needed rebedding every few years. Eventually I milled out the receiver area using a plain old drill press and epoxied in an aluminium bedding block. That did the trick. Some time after that I had Ed Shilen install a barrel on it for me. He did the smithing himself. I still have it and it still shoots flies. My kids fight over who will get that rifle when God calls me.

Enjoy playing with your toys. Life is short.[/QUOT

I figure we all have to start somewhere. I am pretty picky and i am really hard in my work. I've been told that I could find fault in anything. I already know i want be completely happy with the way it turns out.......but can't me much worse than some of the factory offers these days.

 

[dfanonymous]

So who makes the straightest/truest mass produced action?

Maybe look at axial precision and some of their reviews. That's been their whole gimmick for awhile. Mass production will always be more flawed then one person putting in detailed work.

 

[GunHawk]

Not many people work on SAKOs. I'm having a Bartlein installed on mine; my cousin is at Colorado School of Trades. He has to make a special tool to remove the factory barrel. I'm also asking him to work on the action, but unfortunately it's all analogue lathe and milling machine, no CNC. Thanks for the info on the bedding, I'll ask him if he can do a bedding block— I just can't deal with a "plastic" stock.

 

[Susquatch]

Not many people work on SAKOs. I'm having a Bartlein installed on mine; my cousin is at Colorado School of Trades. He has to make a special tool to remove the factory barrel. I'm also asking him to work on the action, but unfortunately it's all analogue lathe and milling machine, no CNC. Thanks for the info on the bedding, I'll ask him if he can do a bedding block— I just can't deal with a "plastic" stock.

I hate the Synthetic stock too. But Sako makes a.gorgeous laminated stock in both brown and in grey. You can also get a nice laminated wood stock from Boyd's or pop some real coin for an Accurate Innovations.

Both of mine are beautiful wood stocks (one laminate and one walnut). But ya, they are a bitch to work on.

CNC won't get you a darn thing more than a good manual lathe/mill will get you. It's just programmed vs skilled craftsman. I'll take the craftsman any day over the newbie and their code.

Never needed any special tools to take the barrel off a Sako. They have a flat bottom and a flat top that will take ordinary tools. Just need to be careful not to crush or marr the receiver.

Watch out for thread pitch. Sakos are metric.

Probably no need to true a Sako or do any other work on the action. They are all pretty darn good right out of the box.

In fact, I have to question the wisdom of installing a new barrel. The Sakos come with a darn near perfect barrel that is hand lapped to a mirror finish. I wouldn't replace it unless it was rusted, or shot out, or needed a caliber change.

From my perspective the only issue with Sako's is bedding bedding bedding. They suck in that department. I've talked to many of the best of my trade, and nobody knows how to bed them properly. One look at the factory bedding and you suddenly get cold feet. So good luck with that one.

 

[GunHawk]

I hate the Synthetic stock too. But Sako makes a.gorgeous laminated stock in both brown and in grey. You can also get a nice laminated wood stock from Boyd's or pop some real coin for an Accurate Innovations.

Both of mine are beautiful wood stocks (one laminate and one walnut). But ya, they are a bitch to work on.

CNC won't get you a darn thing more than a good manual lathe/mill will get you. It's just programmed vs skilled craftsman. I'll take the craftsman any day over the newbie and their code.

Never needed any special tools to take the barrel off a Sako. They have a flat bottom and a flat top that will take ordinary tools. Just need to be careful not to crush or marr the receiver.

Watch out for thread pitch. Sakos are metric.

Probably no need to true a Sako or do any other work on the action. They are all pretty darn good right out of the box.

In fact, I have to question the wisdom of installing a new barrel. The Sakos come with a darn near perfect barrel that is hand lapped to a mirror finish. I wouldn't replace it unless it was rusted, or shot out, or needed a caliber change.

From my perspective the only issue with Sako's is bedding bedding bedding. They suck in that department. I've talked to many of the best of my trade, and nobody knows how to bed them properly. One look at the factory bedding and you suddenly get cold feet. So good luck with that one.

Converting from a 338 WM to a 7mm RM. I went with Bartlein because they seem to do a lot of winning in the PRS, GREAT customer service too! Maybe I'll forego the action work then, since they are already straight and true. The most recent PRS blog on gunsmiths outlined the virtues of CNC use (mostly based on lower tolerances and uniformity). And—as you know— everything on the internet is true.

 

[Edd]

.......CNC won't get you a darn thing more than a good manual lathe/mill will get you. ........

Can you do 40 actions a day on your manual lathe?

 

[J E Custom]

[QUOTE

CNC won't get you a darn thing more than a good manual lathe/mill will get you. It's just programmed vs skilled craftsman. I'll take the craftsman any day over the newbie and their code.
.[/QUOTE]


I have seen this debate many times and having done both types of machining, My opinion is that some things are done better by CNC, others are done better on a lathe. because the set up is different, the end results depend on the quality of the set up and tooling with CNC more than the craftsman and his ability to make minor changes that will effect the out come of the work if done on a lathe.

I know there are two schools of though on this and i am only saying that for action work and chambering, I prefer doing it on a lathe. I know it is slower, but who's in a hurry. Precision take time and being able to adjust to different issues makes doing gunsmithing on a good lathe my first choice.

CNC machining is unforgiving and once you make the part you have to measure every dimension to verify it dimensional'y If it is off you have to scrap the part and start over, With custom gunsmithing, you don't have that luxury, so you must do it right the first time.

Factory actions are CNC machined for speed and cost. True custom rifles are built one at a time by craftsman.

Just My Opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[bigngreen]

CNC gets you production within a given tolerence, manual give you other opportunities, each have strength and weaknesses. I've had to follow CNC trued actions and been able to find improvements BUT to make a true living wage at it and build a strong innovative business you need automation, it's just how to leverage the best of both machines for the top product.

 

[GunHawk]

[QUOTE

CNC won't get you a darn thing more than a good manual lathe/mill will get you. It's just programmed vs skilled craftsman. I'll take the craftsman any day over the newbie and their code.
.

Thanks JE and Sasquatch, I feel a lot more comfortable with the lathe work now. I expect that he's doing it under supervision from his "expert" instructors.