Squared and Trued 700 VS Blueprinted

[Locknload]

Many folks seem to be confused these days about the difference between the two action jobs on a 700 action. The main difference is the uniform reaming of the action to an interior ID of .715 then installing four shims on the bolt body per kit instructions, then turning the bolt body shims to .7135 to .7145 OD to center the bolt in the action per this:

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-...ueing-tools/bolt-body-shim-set-prod26021.aspx

The other truing and squaring work is the same and still must be done yet. Without the reaming of the action and the shims on the bolt body it is not a blueprinted action, know what you are paying for.

Is blueprinting necessary for a sporting rifle, no. It may well cause problems with debris or dirt in the field. For match rifles, it depends on how serious you are and where you are in competition, always near the top, it might give you that little bump you need. But it is not going to win a match for you, if you are in 20th place at every match. Plus unless you do all of the work yourself, in an equipped shop, the expense of having a 700 blueprinted can easily become more than a new premium action.
Ed

 

[J E Custom]

With out starting a big argument, I guess I never though of to separate procedures for Blue printing an action. The way I was taught was that the reason for blue printing in the first place was to machine all surfaces of the action and bolt and threads to be on the bore center line. tolerances of the bolt fit to the action should be parallel and within .002
to .003 thousandths reaming is not necessary unless these tolerances are more. the factory action bolt bore is +or - .700. the bolt is normally .698 to .699 (.001 to .002 thousandth Smaller for correct operation)

When/if action reaming is necessary the same tolerances are necessary.
A good smith will/should determine if reaming the action is necessary to prevent excessive and unnecessary cost.

I feel that getting all surfaces square and concentric to the bore is the most important for accuracy and enlarging the action bore and bolt does nothing for the accuracy that would not be done with normal blue printing. It only makes the work more expensive if it was not necessary.

A "proper" blue printing should cost no more than $ 300.00 and will be well under the cost of a custom action and the precision will be as good or better in some instances.

So In my opinion, Blue printing is blue printing the cost is determined by the amount of work that needs to be done and unnecessary work only drives the cost up. I agree that if the cost gets above $400.00 dollars, it may be prudent to look for a better donor action or a custom action.

Beware of cheep blue printing because most of the time only a few operations are done that give it the appearance of being a complete and "True" blue print when in reality it is minimal. (I have re barreled many actions that the owner said that he had it blue printed, when in fact it ether had been lapped or nothing had been done at all) Most blue printing processes cant be seen with the action assembled, so you have to depend on your smith to do it right and complete. Showing the owner in person or with pictures is necessary before any more work is always a good idea. This also includes and shoddy work that exist.

Each Smith may have his own method of setting up and blue printing but the finished product the most important.

Just My Opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[MagnumManiac]

Well said J E.
That is exactly how I approach.
Too many people pay the 'blueprinting' fees and don't get the end result in my experience.

Cheers.

 

[Edd]

I wouldn't want an action if the receiver had been bored to .715" and had bushings put on each end of the bolt. My idea of a perfectly fitting bolt is looser than most numbers I see thrown around but a bolt that is ~.698" between the bushings installed into a receiver with a .715" bore is too loose for me.

 

[J E Custom]

My preference has always been to buy an over sized bolt .703 if the original bolt clearance is beyond .004 or .005 thousandths or is worn out, and ream the action to .705 (.002 thousandths clearance).

Any tighter and the bolt may not function in all conditions. believe it or not I have seen bolts with .007+clearance be very accurate as long as head space was keep to a minimum with reloading.

J E CUSTOM

 

[ar10ar15man]

i doubt anyone has a blue print from rem of the 700 receiver.
so "blueprinting " is an idea not a fact.
my guess is the bp is a loose tolerance production print, not a tight tolerance bench rest print, so it would be silly to follow the print for a competition/precision fire arm.

 

[dfanonymous]

My preference has always been to buy an over sized bolt .703 if the original bolt clearance is beyond .004 or .005 thousandths or is worn out, and ream the action to .705 (.002 thousandths clearance).

Any tighter and the bolt may not function in all conditions. believe it or not I have seen bolts with .007+clearance be very accurate as long as head space was keep to a minimum with reloading.

J E CUSTOM

Any references for buying an oversized bolt or PTG?

 

[MagnumManiac]

i doubt anyone has a blue print from rem of the 700 receiver.
so "blueprinting " is an idea not a fact.
my guess is the bp is a loose tolerance production print, not a tight tolerance bench rest print, so it would be silly to follow the print for a competition/precision fire arm.

The blueprint we speak of is readily available.
Just as reamer prints are readily available.
What we want to know and work off are the tolerances within those blueprints.
I build engines as well as rifles, all blueprinting is is making ALL tolerances the same, true to centerline and within spec.
Even with high performance engines, there's no point making all the rods, pistons and crank counterweights weigh the same if the bores aren't square or concentric to the crank centerline.
It would be a waste of money balancing such an engine.
Just as it would using an action with more than .005" clearance between bolt and raceway.

Cheers.

 

[KyCarl]

Some of the tolerances you guys are quoting are huge .002-.005 is not close work at all! I ground stuff all the time that was plus .0002 minus .0000 Straight and parallel
and concentric with in .0001. Test stands and indicators don't lie. We could lap them closer than .0001 if needed.
No wonder bolts rattle!

 

[Capt RB]

Most bolt raceways will clean up at .705 or even .708. Some install Borden bumps other smiths install new bolts(a cost savings if changing extractors threading the handle and bushing the pin) and other smiths still will sleeve the bolt because they are going to retime the bolt(a should've anyway).
Should you bp a rem? That's a personal question only the owner can answer. A good custom action fixes alot of factory action issues. Can you shoot well enough to exploit those enhancements? Many cannot but the confidence they gain knowing they have a piece of perfection makes them concentrate more on their shots so they shoot much better than an equally accurate factory rifle.
A blueprinted or custom actioned custom barreled tack driver isn't turning you into Tony Boyer or Sam Hall however it may get you to start taking the steps to get there

 

[Edd]

Some of the tolerances you guys are quoting are huge .002-.005 is not close work at all! I ground stuff all the time that was plus .0002 minus .0000 Straight and parallel
and concentric with in .0001. Test stands and indicators don't lie. We could lap them closer than .0001 if needed.
No wonder bolts rattle!

The numbers being quoted are not tolerances. Even though some incorrectly call them tolerances, they are clearances.

 

[Locknload]

I wrote to Dave Manson a very simple question, very much on purpose. This is the question and his response, with his attachments in original order. I decided not to post the many pages in the PDFs.

Hello Mr. Harmon:

Thanks for your inquiry. I think the best way to answer your question is to send copies of instructions for the various tools comprising our "Accurizing System". To that end, I've attached them for your review. Please contact me if--as I think you may--have questions after reading the instructions.

Best regards,

Dave Manson
Dave Manson Precision Reamers
8200 Embury Road
Grand Blanc, MI 48439 USA
1-810-953-0732 (tel) 1-810-953-0735 (fax)
www.mansonreamers.com



On Sun, Apr 7, 2019 at 12:52 PM <[email protected]> wrote:

What steps are required to deliver a "blueprinted" 700 action outside of the exterior finish?


Dave Manson Precision Reamers 8200 Embury Road ph: 810-953-0732 Grand Blanc, MI 48439 fax: 810-953-0735
THE BEST in the Business
Accurizing System
for Rem. 700 and Win. Model 70 Classic Actions
"Blueprinting" of the above action types has been made a lot easier with the introduction of specialized tooling from Dave Manson Precision Reamers. The following operations can be performed with the tools listed below:
-re-cutting of receiver lugs square to the boltway and to the same height -re-cutting of the receiver threads .010" oversize and square to the boltway -truing of the front receiver ring (and recoil lug on Win. Model 70 Classic) -reaming of the Rem-style recoil lug to the correct oversize diameter
Three tools are required for the above operations. They are described below and are sold individually, or as a set.
Piloted Tap/Mandrel, A special piloted tap, 1 1/16"-16 ground .010" over standard pitch diameter for truing receiver threads. Two hardened, tapered bushings are carefully fitted to the Tap's pilot. These bushings engage the receiver boltway to center the Tap and compensate for different receiver I.D.s. The Tap/Mandrel is sufficiently long that, when it has been fully threaded into a receiver, it may be used as a precision mandrel between centers in the lathe to square up the front receiver ring. Made from High Speed Steel, carefully hardened and ground and then TiN-coated, the Tap/Mandrel is a precision cutting tool designed for long and profitable service.
Piloted Receiver Reamer, A special piloted reamer used to cut the minor receiver thread diameter to the correct size for tapping with the 1 1/16"-16 +.010" piloted Tap/Mandrel and cut receiver lugs square to the boltway and to the same height. It uses the same tapered bushings as the Tap/Mandrel. On the Win. Model 70 Classic, this reamer removes the interrupted 1"-16 receiver thread while re-cutting the receiver lugs. High Speed Steel, carefully hardened and ground.
Recoil Lug Reamer, Used to open the hole in the Rem-style recoil lug so a barrel shank, threaded to the +.010" diameter will fit properly. Saves lots of milling machine set-up. High Speed Steel, carefully hardened and ground.

There are 6 PDF files attached to Dave's memo, the above is the first PDF, the last PDF is reaming the action's bolt ways and bushing the bolt body. Several of the PDF files are two full pages long. Posting them all here would create a small book. If you want a full copy of the 6 PDF tool instructions drop me an email and I will send you a copy of the PDF files.

Now I readily acknowledge that Dave is in the business of selling tools. However, I have used his tools for decades and would consider him to be an expert, if for no other reason, than he created these tools and recognized a need for those tools.
Ed

 

[Susquatch]

Any references for buying an oversized bolt or PTG?

That's my preferred route all the time. I like the one piece bolt body from PTG Specified to whatever OD I want. I will vouch for them any day of the week.

 

[Susquatch]

The other truing and squaring work is the same and still must be done yet. Without the reaming of the action and the shims on the bolt body it is not a blueprinted action, know what you are paying for.

Sorry, don't agree. Adding shims does not constitute blueprinting an action. Adding bolt shims is at best a bandage that just happens to work. But I never do it. If the original bolt does not fit properly I install a new one piece bolt from PTG Specified to the fit as determined by application. Bench is tighter than hunting. Don't want close tolerances on a hunting rifle since dirt, temp expansion, and even freezing moisture can destroy a mission critical function. I use 2-3 thou for bench rifles and 4-6 thou for field rifles.

Reaming out a bolt raceway can hardly be called blue printing.

I believe the term blue-printing probably originated back in the early days of automotive racing when engines were re-built to original factory blueprint specifications. I don't think anyone today still uses real blueprints since that is an old chemical process used to copy original drawings before we had digital methods.

If Remington actually has dimensional specifications, I've never seen them, and I doubt they even follow them anymore.

In my mind, truing, accurizing, rebuilding, and even "blue-printing" (as some use the term) is really all about getting all the parts concentric to the bore line since this us the best way to reduce irregular stresses that affect exact shot-to-shot repeatability. How a smith does that is up to them. I personally believe that the best way to do that is to square the action and lug faces, and internal threads to the raceway, ensure that the bolt, it's lugs, and the bolt face are axially concentric and/or square to the raceway, using precision parts like the recoil lug and trigger, and precision cutting the barrel tenon, threads, and chamber to the bore centerline.

However, the fact is that it's consistent repeatability, not concentric perfection that defines an accurate rifle. If everything happens exactly the same for every shot, the rifle will be as accurate as possible. Concentricity is just the best way we smith's know to achieve the consistent repeatability ends.