BrentM
Well-Known Member
DLFant- what barrel length are you shooting to get 3005?
Savage 111 LRH 6.5-284 Loading Questions
- Thread starter Nimrodmar10
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ShootnMathews
Well-Known Member
Ill apologize up front. I'm posting this from my iPhone and the pictures always post sideways.
I shot the 58 grn Retumbo load. First shot was fine, the second and third bolt lift was stuff. Not hard but stiff. At first glance the group looks uniform but I've experienced this before already. If I lowered the charge some the two on left would be stacked usually. The flyer is in its place but doesn't look out of place because of the other two. Anyways, I put a box where the flyer lands in 95 % of the time. As I lower the charge the flyer goes lower. Near max load it is horizontal to the other too. Like in the pic.
I shot the 58 grn Retumbo load. First shot was fine, the second and third bolt lift was stuff. Not hard but stiff. At first glance the group looks uniform but I've experienced this before already. If I lowered the charge some the two on left would be stacked usually. The flyer is in its place but doesn't look out of place because of the other two. Anyways, I put a box where the flyer lands in 95 % of the time. As I lower the charge the flyer goes lower. Near max load it is horizontal to the other too. Like in the pic.
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Thanks everyone I am very pleased with the results. Brent M the barrel length is 22 inch. I am using a Pro Chrono set at 10 feet from the muzzel. I cant say for sure that it is calibrated spot on but a friend has one of the new bayonet type chrono's and it read pretty close to the same. I am using Winchester brass necked down to 65. The 52.9 grains has no pressure signs, however when I was testing I started getting a sticky bolt at 53.3 grains. So I feel I am pretty close to max. I am setting 5 off the lands. I am happy to share all the tweeks I found to be helpful if any one can use the info an would like me to post.
BrentM
Well-Known Member
Yeah, you might post that info. It is pretty magical. I got 2900 with a target vld and 4831 in a 24" at 54 grains. I get 3025 in a 28.5" with 56.5 Retumbo. Never heard of such high speeds in barrel that short. Would love to carry a short rifle.
That is good velocity for that load/barrel. Perhaps its the Win brass. My Savage LRH/24" with 53gr of H4831sc /Fed210M/Lapua brass runs 2920 FPS. DLFant, what is your drop data, altitude/temp for your 700 yard distance?
Brent
I am using federal 210. 52.9 grains Berger 140 VLD Target or hunting (both are shooting the same) all of the powder I have is 4831 regular not SC. I had several 1 pounders and an 8 pounder, one of the first things I did was mix and blend all of the powder together so would have a more consistent result. Rather than hoping it would be the same from lot to lot. I turned the necks. I lube the necks with graphite and #8shot. I am setting 5 thousandths off the lands using a micrometer seating die. I am using a concentricity tool I work on them until I have no more than 2 thousandths run out I seat a second time after adjusting for the run out (because i have found it often moves the seating depth). I do not weigh or sort bullets or brass. I tried it and found little to no improvement. I did not have an OH WOW moment I just found the things mentioned helped a little here and there a little. One of the main things I found was to do my testing at 2 or 3 hundred yards rather than 100 because the 140's won't stabilize that quick and you will pull your hair out trying to get them to group that close; Lloyd Hill told me that he develops all his load data at 500 yards. John Porter at best of the west basically told me the same when I was I there in July.
Greyfox 3005 seems a bit high for all that I have read. Now when I say 22 inch I am not counting the break that is 2 more. I use the shooter app I have it on my phone. The trick I use a good friend showed me was to shoot a couple groups at known distance then adjust the velocity data in your ballistic program to match. Rather than the other way around, because after all what are you going to go with what it says or what the gun shoots? That saves a lot of wasted time and ammo. Once I did that it was right on at any distance i have tried. I am using a Huskemaw scope with 1/3 click moa turret the drop data was
200 yard zero,
300 yard's 5 clicks up,
400 yard's 11 clicks up,
500 yard's 19 clicks up,
594 yard's 26 clicks up,
722 yard's 38 clicks up, temp was 75 altitude was 1060.
BTW the vel. I had to enter in the program was 3135 but it works all the way thru I also shot at 1204 a few weeks back and that number worked as well it was 90 clicks up. We were shooting at a 9 inch by 12 inch gong I missed on the first shot by about one inch then hit on the second try. All in all I had 7 hits out of 12
Hope this helps
DL
I am using federal 210. 52.9 grains Berger 140 VLD Target or hunting (both are shooting the same) all of the powder I have is 4831 regular not SC. I had several 1 pounders and an 8 pounder, one of the first things I did was mix and blend all of the powder together so would have a more consistent result. Rather than hoping it would be the same from lot to lot. I turned the necks. I lube the necks with graphite and #8shot. I am setting 5 thousandths off the lands using a micrometer seating die. I am using a concentricity tool I work on them until I have no more than 2 thousandths run out I seat a second time after adjusting for the run out (because i have found it often moves the seating depth). I do not weigh or sort bullets or brass. I tried it and found little to no improvement. I did not have an OH WOW moment I just found the things mentioned helped a little here and there a little. One of the main things I found was to do my testing at 2 or 3 hundred yards rather than 100 because the 140's won't stabilize that quick and you will pull your hair out trying to get them to group that close; Lloyd Hill told me that he develops all his load data at 500 yards. John Porter at best of the west basically told me the same when I was I there in July.
Greyfox 3005 seems a bit high for all that I have read. Now when I say 22 inch I am not counting the break that is 2 more. I use the shooter app I have it on my phone. The trick I use a good friend showed me was to shoot a couple groups at known distance then adjust the velocity data in your ballistic program to match. Rather than the other way around, because after all what are you going to go with what it says or what the gun shoots? That saves a lot of wasted time and ammo. Once I did that it was right on at any distance i have tried. I am using a Huskemaw scope with 1/3 click moa turret the drop data was
200 yard zero,
300 yard's 5 clicks up,
400 yard's 11 clicks up,
500 yard's 19 clicks up,
594 yard's 26 clicks up,
722 yard's 38 clicks up, temp was 75 altitude was 1060.
BTW the vel. I had to enter in the program was 3135 but it works all the way thru I also shot at 1204 a few weeks back and that number worked as well it was 90 clicks up. We were shooting at a 9 inch by 12 inch gong I missed on the first shot by about one inch then hit on the second try. All in all I had 7 hits out of 12
Hope this helps
DL
Greyfox 3005 seems a bit high for all that I have read. Now when I say 22 inch I am not counting the break that is 2 more. I use the shooter app I have it on my phone. The trick I use a good friend showed me was to shoot a couple groups at known distance then adjust the velocity data in your ballistic program to match. Rather than the other way around said:
BrentM
Well-Known Member
Could be a fast barrel or small bearing surface lot of bullets. I have had 3 now and none have come anywhere close to those speeds. It bums me out really. Would love to be able to run a shorter barrel. In order to achieve safe velocities over 3000 I went with a long barrel.
ShootnMathews
Well-Known Member
Next time I get to use my buddies chrono I'll throw some more of the bergers through it. Last time I got an average of 3150 but it is possible maybe something was wrong. Curious to see myself. Edit* I wonder if perhaps the chrono was too close and giving a false reading,BUT we shot 5 guns through it with out moving the chrono or the gun rest and the reading for the othe 4 were right and matched out drop data. Including his 300 wm
Shoot, if I could get mine to shoot 1/2 MOA with bergers at aleast 2900 fps I'd be tickled to the point of an underwear change
On a side note, have any of you tried the 140 amax in your Savage?
SteveBurton
Formerly 'Jackmonkey'
I don't have a Savage but have shot the 140gr A-Max's out of my 6.5x284 and get the same POI as the Berger 140 VLD. The A-Max will be a slightly larger group but I'm talking 3/4" vs 1/4". I have not been able to shoot past 200 yards so can't compare drop between the two.
BrentM
Well-Known Member
I hear what you are saying but that sort of velocity (3150) is so far above and beyond anything ever published it is just amazing, especially with a 24" barrel. I do realize that every once in a while a barrel will be fast and accurate, which is the mother load of what we all want.
Running a 28.5" schneider and shooting just under a pressure node I am able to get 3025. Shooting the exact same load in a 24" I get 2900 to 2920. This is with Retumbo which is definitley producing faster speeds than 4831 when I tested them back to back. I run 2900 in Shooter for that rifle and 3025 for the other and I am good to go out to 1400. At the Vortex challenge I tried the 1725 target and both rifles fell short. Probably because the efficiency is just not there with non-stepped BC.
Running a 28.5" schneider and shooting just under a pressure node I am able to get 3025. Shooting the exact same load in a 24" I get 2900 to 2920. This is with Retumbo which is definitley producing faster speeds than 4831 when I tested them back to back. I run 2900 in Shooter for that rifle and 3025 for the other and I am good to go out to 1400. At the Vortex challenge I tried the 1725 target and both rifles fell short. Probably because the efficiency is just not there with non-stepped BC.
NW Hunter
Well-Known Member
I have been following this thread and have been gathering supplies. I now have my Redding S type full length die set, Lapua brass, Berger 140 gr HVLD's and Hybrid 140 gr, 4 lbs. of Retumbo powder.
My base to ogive on my Savage is 2.591". COAL is 3.25" with the VLDs. With the Hybrid 140s, base to ogive is 2.605" and COAL is 3.2875".
I put a target spring in the Accutrigger so I can adjust poundage down to 1.5 lbs and up.
I found an interesting article about tuning the poundage on a Accustock that you all might find interesting.
Savage Action Screw Torque Tuning within AccurateShooter.com
Will post results once I get her out.
My base to ogive on my Savage is 2.591". COAL is 3.25" with the VLDs. With the Hybrid 140s, base to ogive is 2.605" and COAL is 3.2875".
I put a target spring in the Accutrigger so I can adjust poundage down to 1.5 lbs and up.
I found an interesting article about tuning the poundage on a Accustock that you all might find interesting.
Savage Action Screw Torque Tuning within AccurateShooter.com
Will post results once I get her out.
BucksAndBulls
Well-Known Member
I have and the results were not very good. Greyfox's load except 56.5 grains retumbo is the best I have found. I did get some 150 matrix and 130 berger hunting vld's I plan on trying when I get the time... I will post results when I do...
SteveBurton
Formerly 'Jackmonkey'
3150 does sound a bit fast. Running 53.5 grains of H4831sc out of my 26" Bartlein barrel with 4 grooves and an 8" twist gives me 2950-2960fps. That is right on the verge of having sticky bolt lift.
I plan on trying Retumbo this summer but I don't think it will give me 200fps more.
