Rifle length, weight, forgiveness. What is an easy to shoot hunting setup?

[180ls1]

I am looking at building my first long range western hunting rifle. At what point do you feel extra weight, length, other factors start to give diminishing returns when shooting at extended ranges?

To put this in archery terms (more familiar to me). I shoot a long/heavy bow. 39" ATA, 7" brace height 4.7lbs bare and I shoot it so much better than my smaller/lighter hunting bow (34" 3.9lbs) that I gladly deal with the extra weight and length because of that added range it buys me. This is something I am looking to duplicate with a rifle, assuming it helps.

I am young, strong and tall if that matters and will gladly carry a rifle that is 2lbs heavier and 4" longer if I can extend my usable range by 200 yards (or what have you) but I dont know how well that translates. 10lbs scoped and 26" tube with a brake is probably the max? Less? Maybe I am missing something?

I fully understand that a short/light setup is just as inherently accurate but I am not a perfect shooter so if I can "buy back" some forgiveness that is what I am looking to do.

What say you?

 

[lancetkenyon]

I like my rifles to be between 8.5 to 10.5 lbs. Not so light they are difficult to shoot well, but not so heavy they are a PITA to carry all day. Depends on cartridge too.

 

[180ls1]

I like my rifles to be between 8.5 to 10.5 lbs. Not so light they are difficult to shoot well, but not so heavy they are a PITA to carry all day. Depends on cartridge too.

Thanks for the reply! I am looking at a 6.5prc or 7 something. Currently run a 7lb 12oz .270 that is 25 years old with a 22" barrel. It's still a killer but I could use a backup gun anyways.

Good to hear on the weight, that is about what I was thinking. Speed and stability aside, does barrel length matter much? I know with my bow the longer ATA reduces torque. Not sure if I could tell the difference between a 22 vs 26" tube accuracy wise. The gun wont be suppressed.

 

[Southern 62]

Iv backpacked in with a 10 1/4 lb a couple of times. When you put everything on your back and hike in lbs. matter. 63 now having a custom 6.5 Prc by LPR, and hoping for 7.5 to 8 lbs rigged out. Your young and strong, so a 10 lb is doable. I just want a lighter rifle these days. Good Luck on your build.

Jimmy

 

[180ls1]

Iv backpacked in with a 10 1/4 lb a couple of times. When you put everything on your back and hike in lbs. matter. 63 now having a custom 6.5 Prc by LPR, and hoping for 7.5 to 8 lbs rigged out. Your young and strong, so a 10 lb is doable. I just want a lighter rifle these days. Good Luck on your build.

Jimmy

Thanks! Do you notice how the 10 1/4 shoots compared to an 8lb gun? You have probably had a ton more bench time that I have (or will) if I am being honest.

I've done a good job cutting weight elsewhere but you'll have to pull teeth to get me to do it with my weapon. At least that's the way I feel with archery.

 

[bultinkle]

10 pounds loaded with a good stock design for how you shoot the rifle.

Off hand stocks aren't prone stocks

Be honest with how much horsepower you need. Excess recoil isn't manly.

 

[JakeC]

Heavier gun isn't necessarily more accurate than a pencil barreled job, or it is in a roundabout way. It's both like and not like the bow. What the weight does (all other things equal) is equalize a small amount of the variables in recoil/return to battery, it matters a little bit less if your form is great like you say. A little. Many light rifles are very accurate. Stock quality has more to do with accuracy than gun weight. A heavy barrel can help with accuracy in another way, allowing for longer shot strings during practice and slightly easier load tuning.

Where the weight is matters. I have a heavy24" barrel and a pretty heavy scope for mountain hunting, 24 oz. It sucks to shoot offhand. Not the worst but I have considered replacing the almost weightless stock with something heavier just to balance it out. But ultimately I'm going to shoot off an aid given the ranges out here. Sticks or the pack. Besides, no matter how small my groups are the point of impact is going to move a LOT shooting standing vs rested. Proper sling use really helps with the weight distribution and the body torque, but standing long range shots are only a thing if you're Tom Selleck. I'm more accurate standing with a 30" mathews some days at 65 than I am with my rifle offhand, and I'm good. I'm youngish and strong but not fit and a 10-11 pound gun isn't as big a problem in the mountains as other things, even in the snow. I wish I'd saved longer and bought a carbon barrel, but a 24" sendero profile isn't going to be what breaks me and it makes the actual shooting more pleasant.

If you want a 26" barrel I'd go light in diameter, but that comes with drawbacks. That much weight way out there might be unpleasant in the woods. It;s like using a great big stabilizer and back bar. Maybe it makes the weapon awesome, but how are you going to get it to the elk? The extra length doesn't give you that much more speed and it CAN introduce more variables in load tuning and be more likely to "string" under different conditions. It's like arrow spine, adding length does a LOT more than make it longer, and you have to go way up in stiffness to make up for it or spend a lot of time tuning. What you gain in yards in most cartridges is purely philosophical, 1 to 2 percent velocity gain per inch. A 24" heavy barrel is hard enough the way the rifle wants to flip while carrying the sling over the shoulder. Not terrible, just annoying. Even if you find a great sniper's nest you have to hike to it. I handled a 24" medium sporter 25-06 in a bell and carlson stock last weekend. It was really, really nice. Maybe 9.5 pounds but balanced and stable while being fast.

I built a 7 saum because a short action is what I had and at the time 7mm bullets were the only thing left on shelves. I love having the weight range of the 7mm, and the recoil to horsepower/ballistics ratio of a 7mm is unbeatable, but if I was building now I'd build a 300 WSM and rely a little more on a brake. Nobody hates the PRC though. If you're okay with a standard action your options are endless.

Bultinkle is right that offhand stocks aren't prone stocks, but the lines of traditionally shaped stocks make it carry well in the hand and in the brush. It's like carrying a compound vs a stickbow. I like a fair amount of beavertail in the front to sit in a bag rest though. Other guys don't mind carrying chunkier stuff, I'm still getting used to having a scope to lug around. But don't underestimate how much you want that stock to suit you and how much it has to do with accuracy.


That got long, hope it's helpful though.

 

[manitou]

I find 7.5-9lbs the sweet spot for me. I have taken multiple animals beyong 600 yds with 7.5 lb rifles. We do a lot of hiking with packs.
I also prefer 25-26" barrels to squeeze the best performance out of a rifle. They are also more aesthetically pleasing IMO. Short stubby rifles are not my thing.
Not once in 50 years of hunting have I said to myself: "I wish I had a shorter rifle" or "this rifle is too long". A non-issue for me.
I am 6'3", so maybe thst makes a difference.

 

[nralifer]

I am looking at building my first long range western hunting rifle. At what point do you feel extra weight, length, other factors start to give diminishing returns when shooting at extended ranges?

To put this in archery terms (more familiar to me). I shoot a long/heavy bow. 39" ATA, 7" brace height 4.7lbs bare and I shoot it so much better than my smaller/lighter hunting bow (34" 3.9lbs) that I gladly deal with the extra weight and length because of that added range it buys me. This is something I am looking to duplicate with a rifle, assuming it helps.

I am young, strong and tall if that matters and will gladly carry a rifle that is 2lbs heavier and 4" longer if I can extend my usable range by 200 yards (or what have you) but I dont know how well that translates. 10lbs scoped and 26" tube with a brake is probably the max? Less? Maybe I am missing something?

I fully understand that a short/light setup is just as inherently accurate but I am not a perfect shooter so if I can "buy back" some forgiveness that is what I am looking to do.

What say you?

Strangely enough, the rig I used 2 years ago on a coastal Black Bear hunt was just perfect. Compactness and ruggedness were the key as the weather was for the most part cold and snowy except for the one day it cleared when I got the Bear. We were constantly in and out of boats while looking for bear sign along old snow slide areas. My rifle was an 8 lb 20" 308 Win with an American Rifle Co. short action with a magazine length capable of housing and feeding a 2.975" loaded round. The barrel was carbon wrapped 1:9 twist and the stock was a polymer Magpul Hunter 700 tactical stock with a short Harris bipod. I knew conditions would be wet, so a polymer light stock proved to be just the ticket. The rifle shot 1/2 MOA and could hit the point of aim regardless of the ambient temperature. For your application I would highly recommend a 7mm caliber in a short magnum case. The best I think, is the Sherman 7SS shooting a 160 gr Badlands Precision Bulldozer 2 at 3100 fps with a G7 BC of 0.353. (G1=0.690) from a 1:7 barrel but a 260 Rem shooting a 135 gr SBD2 (G7=0.358) from a 1:7 barrel should work equally well. Brass and dies are commercially available. The main thing is getting comfortable with shooting 400-500 yds. A 300 yd zero with those flat shooting bullets should allow you to just point and shoot to 400 yds.

 

[DUCKMAN11]

What cartridge are you interested in shooting? Cartridge/chamber choice will help dictate barrel length. If you don't need the weight to tame recoil then don't build it into the rifle. Weight does help make a rifle harder to move also, meaning if your trigger pull is rough or that buck fever kicks in.....a heavier gun will move less when you move wrong.

A thicker barrel has a higher potential for accuracy. But there is no way to quantify that. Even if you took a 1" Dia straight profile barrel that shot .2" groups and then turned that same barrel down to .620" at the muzzle....it would behave like a different barrel and might not shoot 3" groups with the original load.
All a thicker barrel does is reduce barrel harmonics, give you are larger heat sink for higher round count shot strings without heat dispersion and adds mass to reduce felt recoil and shooter movement.

I can't think of a cartridge off the top of my head that doesn't benefit from a longer barrel. That's not to say that some cartridges don't perform well with a short barrel. The 300wsm does pretty well with a 22" barrel while the 300wm does better with a 26".

Some cartridges just flat out come alive with a longer barrel. Most of the cartridges that do are generally considered overbore cartridges like the 25-06 or 7rum. They need longer barrels to truly live up to their potential.

As far as shooting positions go I'd say that it's not advisable to make off hand shots at game past 200yds unless you practice them A LOT. I use shooting sticks quite often. Out here we have broomweed that's 30" tall so prone shots are all but impossible and kneeling shots are marginal.

I rarely hunt suppressed so I run a 26" barrel on my 300prc that weighs 13# and my 25-06 that weighs 8# My current build is a 25-06AI that will have a 26" barrel. I have a 20" 6.5 Grendel bolt action that gets used on hogs a lot and might weigh 6.5#.

My ideal hunting rifle would be a long action with a 26" barrel that weighs 8-9#

 

[birddog 68]

I totally agree with that above. 8-9# with a 26" barrel does it for me. I have carried 10.5# rifles over hill and dale and didn't like it at the end of the day. If you are going to be stationary a little heavier ain't a bad thing.

 

[BrentM]

I built the perfect rig for me. Took me many builds but this is my go to. Just shy of 10 lbs with a suppressor, just under 9 without. 18" barrel.

 

[skipglo]

I like my rifles to be between 8.5 to 10.5 lbs. Not so light they are difficult to shoot well, but not so heavy they are a PITA to carry all day. Depends on cartridge too.

^^^^^^^^This x 2

 

[xsn10s]

I built the perfect rig for me. Took me many builds but this is my go to. Just shy of 10 lbs with a suppressor, just under 9 without. 18" barrel.

Looks about perfect but the bolt is on the wrong side.