Remington 700 long range.

[Barrelnut]

I agree that the bullet leaves the barrel before the shooter feels any recoil. I do believe the rifle is moving rearward before the bullet leaves the barrel though. Believe that is just the "for every action there is a equal reaction" physics thing. The instant the bullet moves forward, the rifle moves the other direction.

Read somewhere, maybe on the forum, that the rifle moves about 3/8 of an inch before the bullet leaves the barrel. That is not much, so the shooter has not yet felt the recoil. A lot happens in that .02 seconds and 3/8 inch though. Lot of things that throw the shot off. When the rifle starts to move, it also wants to move/hop to the left. This is due to the torque on the barrel caused by the bullet as it spends down the barrel. Add any of the influences the shooter can have like sideways pressure on the stock and all of a sudden you have a flyer, or at least a group that just opened up some. The lighter the rifle, and the bigger the powder load, the more profound all of this is and the more the shot can be affected. This is why heavy rifles are a long range shooters friend.

Interesting documentary on the human brain recently. We actually feel things like recoil after they happen, not during. That is because it takes the brain quite a while to gather the info and process and experience it. So by the time you feel recoil it has already physically happened. You are always ever so slightly living in the past.

 

[MudRunner2005]

In response to my asking if the rifle stays still until the bullet's left the barrel.....If that's true:

Why do double rifle barrel muzzle axes toe in several MOA to cross at 20 or so yards in front of them so bullets from each will hit point of aim 100 yards away?

Why are handgun's front sight aiming reference higher above the bore axis than that of the rear sight?

Why do rifle barrel's bore axis at the muzzle point somewhere else besides at a point above the downrange aiming point equal to sight height plus bullet drop?

Typical .308 Win barrel times are around 1.5 millisecond or .0015 second; not .020 second as you suggest

It appears that way, but if it were true, then the following would not be facts:

Barrel Harmonics Mode Shape Movies

Rifle Barrel Tuner Vibration Analysis

It's been proved that us humans all see through rifle sights the same way. So, why do several people need a different zero to hit point of aim with the same rifle and ammo?

I think you're forgetting about Newton's laws of motion. Of course, shooter's don't feel the rifle recoiling during barrel time because it moves only a few thousandths or hundredths of an inch. Its amount and direction is primarily determined by how powerful the load is, the rifle's weight and how far the bore axis is and its direction from the center of mass holding that barrel.

Ok, so it has been proven now that the human CNS cannot process the information that quickly, that is why recoil is a delayed feeling, correct?. That being the case (as you have so stated above)...That would mean that it's not even humanly possible to affect the shot in 1.5 milliseconds, since your CNS can't even process info or function that fast...Like, I stated prior.

Also, if it doesn't function or process info that fast, you can't expect to feel the recoil yet, because it has only moved the butt of the rifle a few thousandths of an inch. A few thousandths of an inch, is not even noticeable with the human eye without magnification, so you definitely can't expect to feel that recoil if the rifle only moved a few thousandths of an inch...So, let's agree to disagree on that one.

 

[FEENIX]

I'm considering an Remington 700 long range in 300 win mag and am wondering if there is anybody out there that can tell me anything about this rifle? How is the QC on the 700 presently?

lightbulbNot like what it used to be ... period!lightbulb

My LGS is having a hard time selling them for the same reason you're wondering.

 

[Bart B]

MudRuner,

I thought I explained pretty good why firearm's muzzles don't point to the same place it was at on target when the firing pin strides the primer compared to where it points when the bullet leaves the barrel. The firearm moves and twists in all directions while the bullet goes down the barrel depending on how it's held and built. If the front sight on a 24" barrel moves in any direction only.008" while the rear receiver sight stays in place as the bullet goes down the barrel, the bullet will strike 1 MOA away from where it would had the front sight stayed in place.

I've best demonstrated this teaching folks to shoot rifles slung up in prone. Once they've got a good zero keeping their front elbow in place on the ground and calling shots very good, I have them move their front elbow 2 inches to the left. Most are surprised to see their next shot go 1 MOA or more to the right of where they called it. The external pressure on the stock forend is now at a different angle and force; that changes how the rifle moves in recoil. I've also shown how shots string in elevation by how high or low the rifle buttplate is positioned on their shoulder.

That's the best proof that the rifle twists and pivots in recoil while the bullet is still in the barrel. Second best is showing people that their zeros from standing, sitting and prone will be 1 to 2 MOA to the left of a zero obtained sitting at a bench holding onto a rifle resting on bags.

Nobody feels the difference these small changes make in where the barrel points. They see their shots not going to where they called it.

 

[Edd]

You talk a lot about torque and twisting. On a round action with an integral recoil lug, would there be an advantage to bedding the recoil lug tight on the sides?

 

[Bart B]

You talk a lot about torque and twisting. On a round action with an integral recoil lug, would there be an advantage to bedding the recoil lug tight on the sides?

Yes, that helps.

Also have a small gap between the recoil lug bottom and its front. That lets the receiver come out of the bedding a lot easier for cleaning and prevents the lug from bottoming out before the receiver goes tight against its bedding.

There's still some receiver twisting that often works it a bit loose from a perfect fit to the bedding. But only with rifles shooting bullets heavier than 160 grains out faster than 2500 fps. They'll put enough torque on the barreled action to start having problems. Pillar bedding helps to some degree.