Remington 260...The new Sniper rifle?

[Michael Eichele]

As far as the 260 goes, since it retains its energy better out past 700y, should it be considered a better "Elk" round out past that range than the 308?

Take a closer look at post #13.

Neither one of us should be shooting at elk at 700+ yards with either. However, if you had to the 200 AB sports a BC of nearly .100 more than the 140 AB with 60 more grains and a much higher SD. You will get more velocity out of the 260 at the muzzle. The 200 will surpass the 140 in every catergory except drop.

 

[Buffalobob]

What are long VDL bullets and what are some examples of them? Why do they not fully stabilize till 300y?

VLD means Very Low Drag

There is a discussion of some computer simulations by Berger in this part of the forum concerning bullet with initial yaw.

 

[3006savage]

I have done a little research on the 260 becasue I was interested in a rifle build in that cartridge. The 260 Remington is probably at its best with the 130 grain Berger with a .595 BC and 2900 fps from a 26 or 28 inch barrel. For purely hunting purposes the the 130 grain scirrocco would also be a good performer with a .575 BC.

I would consider the 260 a great deer round but not an elk round.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

The 130g Scirroco will perform well on elk out to 400yrds. Like anything you must place the shot.

I witnessed that bullet break both shoulders at 375yrds on a large cow elk.

If you are just going to use this rifle for hunting, why not look at the .264 Win mag, or the 6.5-06, or the 6.5-284? This would just take it up a notch.

Steve

 

[Stgraves260]

Thanks for that great reply. lightbulb In the Army we always used the 175gr HPBT M118LR. This was "THE BEST" round for the 308 as far as the Army was concerned. You mentioned a 155gr bullet. Do you know what the BC was on that? I would like to run it through my ballistic program and see what that shows. Are there any bullets out there for the 308 that have a .6 0r higher BC?

The only way to get the B.C. up in the 30 cal round is with a 200 grain bullet. Way to heavy imo. Thats why the 260 shines over the 308. (260) 130grn berger .550 B.C. 2900+ fps or (308) 210grn 630 B.C. 2350 fps. Bullet wont perform under 1800fps. It wont mushroom. 1800 fps at 400yrds. The 260 130grn 1800fps at 800yrds. But the bullet will still expand at 1600fps witch this round still acheaves at 1000yrds. But barley. The 308 is still a good round. It has proven it self for years. You have to do your research on the ammo you tend to use. How fast does it have to travel to expand? Oh and the wind drift for these 2 rounds at 1000yrds is over 20". Wind speed 10mph. ( The 155grn Berger bullet . B.C. is .439. for the 308. )

 

[Stgraves260]

264 Win Mag. Now your talking!!! But my 260 Rem has never let me down!!! Not even on a 200lb hog at 725 yrds. 130 grn Berger 27" Med heavy SS Fluted Heart Barrel. 2933FPS. I shot him just behind the ear. He never moved. Will I consider taking an elk at 1000 yrds with my 260? Dont know yet. But 800yrds YES!!!! with out a dought. Would like to see how the 130 grn Burger bullet mushrooms at 800yrds first befor going to 1000yrds on an elk with my 260. I have a 7mm Rem mag that I would use 1st at that range for an animal that size. ( The 260 shows on paper that it has the ability to do so. )

 

[trebark]

264 Win Mag. Now your talking!!! But my 260 Rem has never let me down!!! Not even on a 200lb hog at 725 yrds. 130 grn Berger 27" Med heavy SS Fluted Heart Barrel. 2933FPS. I shot him just behind the ear. He never moved. Will I consider taking an elk at 1000 yrds with my 260? Dont know yet. But 800yrds YES!!!! with out a dought. Would like to see how the 130 grn Burger bullet mushrooms at 800yrds first befor going to 1000yrds on an elk with my 260. I have a 7mm Rem mag that I would use 1st at that range for an animal that size. ( The 260 shows on paper that it has the ability to do so. )

hmmm.....elk at 800 with a 260 shooting 130grain bullets? really? the conventional wisdom says you need 1500lbs to cleanly kill an elk. Running the numbers on a 130VLD (bc .552) at 3100fps, it carries 1500lbs to 500 yards. That same round drops to 995lbs at 800 and 744 at 1k.

 

[Camshaft]

Ive got nothing against the .260rem, but some here need to stop calling this Civic a Corvette. Its a good round, so is the .308win, hell throw the 7mm08 into this group for kicks and see what can of worms that opens. The fact of the matter is, the case is the limiting factor here, regardless of what bullet it is spitting out. IMHO there isnt any cartridge i would use to launch a 6.5mm bullet at an elk at 700yrds+. I wouldnt be comfortable with anything sub .284. Sure i can knock a man down with a golf ball if i throw it fast enough, but id sure as **** rather throw a bowling ball at him.

 

[trebark]

Ive got nothing against the .260rem, but some here need to stop calling this Civic a Corvette. Its a good round, so is the .308win, hell throw the 7mm08 into this group for kicks and see what can of worms that opens. The fact of the matter is, the case is the limiting factor here, regardless of what bullet it is spitting out. IMHO there isnt any cartridge i would use to launch a 6.5mm bullet at an elk at 700yrds+. I wouldnt be comfortable with anything sub .284. Sure i can knock a man down with a golf ball if i throw it fast enough, but id sure as **** rather throw a bowling ball at him.

Hilariously true! In addition to my 260, there's a 300RUM in the safe too....

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f53/my-300rum-mcr-70809/#post494570

 

[Stgraves260]

Not sure were the 1500ft-lbs came from but ok. Every book iv ever read said 600ft-lbs for deer and 800 - 1000 for elk. I know that a 6.5-284 using the 140 grain Berger at 2950fps has a confirmed kill at 1200yrds on elk. My rem 260 is about 200 -250fps slower than the 6.5-284. At 1200yrds the 6.5-284 140 grn bullet carried 1050ft-lbs. Now at 7000 ft above sea level ( Elk Climate ) my 260 with the 130 grn bullet has 1050ft-lbs at 800yrds and is still at 2000fps so bullet will still exspand. This is why I would squeeze the trigger on an elk at 800yrds. But only at 6000ft above sea level or higher. Altitude is a key factor. I do think you for your help. Ill have to check on the 1500ft-lbs on elk cause I would really like to know. Heck ive killed deer(doe) at almost 500 yrds with a 22-250 with a 60grn bullet and it has around 300ft-lbs at that range. Well under the 600ft-lb mark they clame it takes to kill a deer. So shot placement is a key factor also. I have faith in me and my rifle. If I didnt I would never pick it up. My rifle has never let me down. So I will contiue to do my homework so I will never let my rifle down. Gone Shooting!!!

 

[Stgraves260]

Got an email today about shooting 1000yrds for $1750. They teach you how to shoot in all weather conditions. Tac Pro only charges $600 to do the same thing. The thing that make you go hum. LOL!! Oh and I am a huge fan of the 7mm-08. Great round. It loves the 140grn to 155grn bullets. I think that all 4 rounds meaning 243, 260,7mm-08 and 308 are all great rounds if you use the right bullet in them. Long range hunnting bullets IMO. 243= 95grn-105grn. 260rem 120grn - 140grn. 7mm-08 140grn - 155grn. 308 150grn -168grn. Now in order best to last again IMO for hunting deer at 1000yrds. (1st) 7mm-08, (2nd) 260Rem. 700yrds for the(3rd) 243 and (4th) 308. The reason only 700yrds for these 2 rounds on deer is that the 243 is too light, and the 308 is to slow. Know your gun and its limits. I want clean kills. Now on coyote and smaller varmints, these 2 rounds would be just fine at 1000yrds. But I would chose the 243 over the 308 due to B.C. If I wanted a 30 cal rifle i would go with the big boy guns. 300 win mag, 300 RUM or the 338 Lapua. ( 416 Barret oh yeah LOL!!!!! )That way you can take advantage of the 30cal round. Get the velocity and the B.C. up on this great caliber. 180 + grn bullets for this caliber. Gone shooting.

 

[Boss Hoss]

Don't mean to rain on the parade running down Main Street here but these threads can get pretty funny sometimes. Unfortunately, the round being discussed is very marginal even for a whitetail at 1K. Sure with a perfect shot it will kill one or with a bad one (may take a week or so) however, it is evident that from a many of the posts here some are not Fully understanding of what it takes to make the 1K shots.

Practice and let me tell you it is not easy! I shoot 1K BR and have done pretty well BUT when you are in the field it gets ugly real fast trying to line up a shot and not screw it up. Read all of the ballistic charts you want but in the end you still have to be able to judge condition flawlessly with a marginal cartridge and still set up a perfect shot.

Point here is that if a less than lethal hit is made with a marginal cartridge and same one is made by the 300 RUM or 338 Lapua then it does not take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Way too much time is spent looking at ballistic charts rather than learning to read conditions which are what it is about when shooting in the field. Fact---I can take a factory rifle 300 RUM Sendero lets say and you can shoot one of my Speedy built sporters in 7mm-08 with perfectly tuned ammunition and at 1K unless you are proficient in judging condition embarrass you.

It is all about practice there are hundreds of chambering to choose from but in the end bigger and faster is better. Next time you are in the field take your RF and ping different areas and look at the condition. The muzzle may be 6 o'clock, 350 may be 8 o'clock, 700 may be 10 o'clock with a slight up draft and at 1k back to 8 o'clock. For me when shooting at an elk at 1K I have my 338 Slowpoke (338 Lapua Imp) with a 250 gr pill or my 300 Slowpoke (300 RUM Imp) with a 200 gr pill because I want all of the advantage I can get and am above average at judging condition.

Just something else to think about….

 

[Camshaft]

Don't mean to rain on the parade running down Main Street here but these threads can get pretty funny sometimes. Unfortunately, the round being discussed is very marginal even for a whitetail at 1K. Sure with a perfect shot it will kill one or with a bad one (may take a week or so) however, it is evident that from a many of the posts here some are not Fully understanding of what it takes to make the 1K shots.

Practice and let me tell you it is not easy! I shoot 1K BR and have done pretty well BUT when you are in the field it gets ugly real fast trying to line up a shot and not screw it up. Read all of the ballistic charts you want but in the end you still have to be able to judge condition flawlessly with a marginal cartridge and still set up a perfect shot.

Point here is that if a less than lethal hit is made with a marginal cartridge and same one is made by the 300 RUM or 338 Lapua then it does not take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Way too much time is spent looking at ballistic charts rather than learning to read conditions which are what it is about when shooting in the field. Fact---I can take a factory rifle 300 RUM Sendero lets say and you can shoot one of my Speedy built sporters in 7mm-08 with perfectly tuned ammunition and at 1K unless you are proficient in judging condition embarrass you.

It is all about practice there are hundreds of chambering to choose from but in the end bigger and faster is better. Next time you are in the field take your RF and ping different areas and look at the condition. The muzzle may be 6 o'clock, 350 may be 8 o'clock, 700 may be 10 o'clock with a slight up draft and at 1k back to 8 o'clock. For me when shooting at an elk at 1K I have my 338 Slowpoke (338 Lapua Imp) with a 250 gr pill or my 300 Slowpoke (300 RUM Imp) with a 200 gr pill because I want all of the advantage I can get and am above average at judging condition.

Just something else to think about….

Amen to that. Where I live (sea level) you have to turn cartwheels to get any of the 308win based cartridges to still be supersonic at 1k. And the bullets it takes to stretch them out that far are not hunting bullets. So I apologize if anyone calling them 1k yard deer/elk cartridges sounds like a fool to me.

 

[rscott5028]

The OP referenced "sniper rifle".

So, was that in reference to LE snipers, Millitary snipers, or sniper competitions?

I think LE snipers rarely (if ever) shoot past 500 yds. ...for the very reasons that Boss Hoss states about the difference between paper and practical. Except that for LE snipers, the ethical dilema of wounding a game animal is trivial compared to shooting the wrong person.

The military has a number of cartridges for various applications. But, I expect lack of supply for 260 Rem in the military would prohibit it's use without an act of congress.

The article from the OP references practical rifle matches which I think they call sniper competitions around here. I don't know the rules. But, I gather they're probably a pretty fair test of a variety of shooting skills. However, putting down game animals is not one of the tests.

As such, I've heard that the 260 Rem is a popular cartridge for those contests.

In the end, there are probably a few bad choices for a cartridge. But for the most part, it would come down to shooting skills for anyone with a relatively accurate rifle.

-- richard