Pressure Issues

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing' started by Jester896, Jul 31, 2018.

  1. Jester896

    Jester896 Well-Known Member

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    I have a fondness for 6.5 caliber. I have a LR target gun in .260, a medium range hunting rifle in .260. I wanted something for a little longer range so I had a 6.5WSM built on a 700 L/A I had.

    There were 3 of these built with the other 2 being S/A. Both of those rifles use the same load data and perform very close to the same. Mine however will not. I can drop it a whole gr or more (IMR7828) and there is no change. I can slow it down 200 fps and no significant change. Primer smashed and bolt very hard to lift. Normally I find copper fouling at the throat and muzzle of my other two rifles and minimal I believe. This one when I look with the borescope there isn't much at the throat or muzzle but the rest is heavily copper fouled. We have taken it apart 3 times to check it. Resurfaced the action lugs and action face, checked counter bore depth, set the barrel back and re-cut the chamber.

    Don't know what else to try. Almost think it is a barrel issue.
     
  2. ShtrRdy

    ShtrRdy Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if there is something wrong with the 6.5 WSM reamer that is causing the throat to be rough or to have a lot of cutting marks across the lands? That might cause the copper to be shaved from the bullet, then vaporized with the high heat and pressure, and then deposited in the bore when temp/pressure drop?
     
  3. Jester896

    Jester896 Well-Known Member

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    I will run the scope back in for a look.
     
  4. sable tireur

    sable tireur Well-Known Member

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    Who is the barrel maker and what are the specs you asked for?
     
  5. Jester896

    Jester896 Well-Known Member

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    Bartlein SS 1:8 3 contour finished at 26" I think
     
  6. sable tireur

    sable tireur Well-Known Member

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    Call or e-mail Frank Green at Bartlein. He usually responds to e-mail within a day. He may want to see the barrel if you can't explain virtually everything about the load and the chamber.
     
  7. Jester896

    Jester896 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't realize that is what you were asking. I emailed Bartlein over a month ago and no reply as of yet. I will get the reamer dimensions, load data, and scope the chamber area again.
     
  8. Jester896

    Jester896 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info sable.

    6.5 WSM FIN .299 NK .188 FB 1°-30 PTG 5/11
    62 gr of 7828 or 7828SSC knocks on the door of 3200 fps on Radar. One of the other rifles shoots best at 3175 fps. I just don't have the info on the the other rifle but it is the same or they shoot the same load as this one. I watched that rifle take a whitetail at 606 yds and it hit like Thor's Hammer off the truck hood.

    I dropped it back in .5 gr increments until it was more than 100 fps slower and still primers were flat and bolt would not lift.

    I do not have counter bore clearances handy
     
  9. yoteslayer

    yoteslayer Well-Known Member

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    I had a battlein barrel on a 308 that the first time I fired it it blew the primer out this was sako factory ammo I then fired a reload and had high pressure signs but I had read some where to reduce the load to a starting load and fire like 50 rounds through it when I was done I shot the same 308 ammo and had no pressure signs not sure why but might work on yours to good luck
     
  10. L.Sherm

    L.Sherm Well-Known Member

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    Try H1000 or RL26, mine loves H1000. My reamer is a .296 neck with .180 freebore that I run the 140 vlds. I trim my brass necks to .292 loaded round made fro 270 WSM
     
  11. Hired Gun

    Hired Gun Well-Known Member

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    Were all 3 guns built with the same reamer. brand barrel with same specs including head space? Guns built off the same reamer should be able to interchange fired brass and ammo. I'm lost as to why the work was done on the receiver you listed. Not one of those things would affect velocity or barrel fouling and the cutting only makes the bolt lose primary extraction making the bolt harder to lift.
     
  12. Jester896

    Jester896 Well-Known Member

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    Were all 3 guns built with the same reamer. yes
    brand barrel with same specs including head space? yes
    I agree...Guns built off the same reamer should be able to interchange fired brass and ammo.

    I'm lost as to why the work was done on the receiver you listed.
    the rifle was once a 7mm STW built be another builder. The threads are oversized and the STW beat up the action lugs. The original bolt was replaced due to errors (bolt face wasn't straight) with it. Rather than resurfacing the bolt face to correct the .007 difference I chose to replace it. We just touched it second time to make sure we did the work properly after the initial cut. Material really wasn't removed the second time. The other 2 times we just measured. In one of the measuring sessions is when we found the issue with the bolt face.

    I have contacted Bartlein twice now. Once with a phone call, I am probably as hard to catch as Frank, so i didn't leave a number in the VM message. The second time I left a number and an email address in the VM message, still waiting to hear back from either method.
     
  13. Hired Gun

    Hired Gun Well-Known Member

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    Please clarify, where all three rifles built by the same smith? Then am wondering what you expect Frank to do or say if he didn't build the rifles. Once a barrel leaves his shop he can't control what is done to it. Things like break in procedures that could damage the surface of the barrel. This is straight from the top barrel makers in the US. The only thing you can do to wreck a barrel is stick anything in it other than clean bullets.

    It sounds like all 3 are loading independently for each rifle. A difference in scales, powder lots, bullet lots and brass could easily explain the differences. Just thinking out loud for a bit. I did see you said one was tested on a Radar. Is that the same chronograph you are doing all your testing on.

    I'm thinking their is still something with the fact the STW blew up and knocked the bolt face .007" out of square. If the bolt was this severely damaged, was the abutments squared back up? What does your primary extraction look like. With the bolt held back what is the clearance on the handle to the back of the action? I also suspect the reamer could have been damaged. The only 700 action I ever declared totaled was a 7RUM that fired a couple 300 Win Mag rounds through it before it stuck the bolt shut. It swelled the bolt head up so large it had to be beat out through both action bridges. It also swelled the barrel tennon up stretching the action threads and froze the recoil lug tight on the barrel. It only set the action lugs back .001". The scope, mounts, trigger and stock were the only parts undamaged. It was cheaper to buy a new rifle than repair it.

    Even if nothing is ever found every rifle is an individual. This is why top level match shooters will have 5 or more barrels at a time fitted. They test them all with their proven load and pick out the best. It is saved for matches. The second best is a test and practice barrel. The rest are sold off.
     
  14. Jester896

    Jester896 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, all 3 built by the same guy.
    no all of my rounds weren't loaded with the same scales. The problem exists with them being loaded on either scale though. The other 2 rifles were loaded with the same equipment, same 8# jug of powder, only mine was mixed, but got the same result. It didn't matter if I used powder out of the 8# or my 1#. I even used rounds he loaded for his rifle. It also didn't matter whether I used FC, Winchester, or Norma brass. Yes, it is the same LabRadar we all use.

    The STW did not blow up. I am not sure how I gave that impression. It was built by a different Smith and didn't perform well. I actually believe it was a factory defect. It may have been one of the contributing factors of why it didn't perform well. I am not sure how it got past the builder either.

    I am not sure what I expect Frank to do. It was suggested that I contact him by another poster. I started the thread to knock around ideas as to why this may be taking place. I have all of the confidence in the world in my builder. I have watched him make somewhere between 15-20 rifles 2 of them being other rifles of mine. He has also made some I didn't watch him do. I have only seen 2 issues in those. One didn't perform as expected and when scoping the barrel he found an issue about 2" in from the muzzle. He sent the barrel back and the mfg who found no issue with it. He replaced the barrel because it was speced at 26". He removed 2" from the barrel and installed it in another action...and it shot lights out...just 24" now. Then there is mine.