most accurate 30/338 brass

[cwhuntsalot]

I am beginning the build of a 30/338 on a manners T5A Win M70 26" krieger for coues whitetail and antelope over there in the other county. P.O.Ackley's #1 gives me from 150 to 250 fps more than the 300 Win. with 150 and 165 grain pills. My biggest question is who provides the most accurate "out of the box" brass? Qual Cart offers proper headstamped brass, but I purchased five boxes of 460 Short A Square from them a few years back and many of the case bodies already had splits (enough to let light in). I inspected them all as best I could and returned two whole boxes for defects. Other calibers I have not had probs with but I am a little leery.
Also, should I invest in a set of competition dies? If I size from 300 Win or 338 Win, should I employ an inside-neck turner?

 

[Trnelson]

I've found it to be much easier to go from 338 win mag to 30/338. 300 win mag requires bumping the shoulder back and a length trim to 2.50". You can expand 7mm Remington magnum up to 30/338 as well. Those tend to end up 2.45 to 2.47 off the sizing die. They don't last more than 4 firings as they stretch on first firing. As far as brand of brass, I've had good luck with Winchester 338 win mag brass. I trim it all then sort them out by weight into like weights. I just love mine with the 230 Berger tactical OTM, the 210 Berger is also a great bullet for a big 30 cal rifle. Ymmv.

 

[cwhuntsalot]

no trouble with neck thickness? no need to turn?
Thanks for the info

 

[IdahoCTD]

I've used .264, 7RM, and .338 win. and all of it has proven accurate but it seems like the .338 brass holds up a little better. I've always used Winchester brass as it's tends to be consistently better then Remington.

 

[cwhuntsalot]

I just visited your website and tried to send you a message. Your website wants me to fill in a "hidden field" I cant find it- it's hidden very well!!. I'll attach the message here.
I just read your reply to my question about 30/338 brass. Thank you very much for the info. I am also building several dangerous game rifles. I've always thought a brake in front of an iron site was hideously ugly. How about designing and marketing a little bit longer brake with an integral sight at the far end? This would provide for upward vents to help control muzzle climb. maybe lengthen A four or five vent could provide enough length for a dovetail sight and 3-4 vertical vents
Thanks for your time and helpful info. Curtis

 

[358sta]

I've only tried two different brands of brass. Lapua 338 Win Mag necked down which you can't get anymore and 308 Norma Mag which I just ran through my FL sizing die and trimmed. I tried some of the Norma as my supply of Lapua 338 WM has almost been depleted.

I never worried about proper head stamped brass so never tried anything from Qual Cart. As far as getting 150-250 fps more velocity from a 30-338 versus a 300 Win Mag, not going to happen unless your 30-338 has a 30 plus inch barrel and compare that to a 300 Win Mag using a 26" or shorter barrel. In the same length barrel, the 300 Win will win every time.

I have three different 30-338s - two set up for hunting and one for long distance shooting that has a 30" barrel and tight neck chamber - turning necks becomes such a drag after a very short time.

Kevin

 

[IdahoCTD]

That's weird because I entered my name and email and sent myself a email through the site and it worked fine.

I could build one longer so that it could be machined for a site but the demand would have to be there to do so. Also the longer the brake the more accurately it has to be installed so that bullets don't impact the brake. Another issue is site height as all my brakes except the .875" brake can't be turned down without risking failure. One option might be to cut a dovetail in the elongated end but I'd have to figure out what size brake would work the best for that so that the rear site still had movement.

 

[Trnelson]

no trouble with neck thickness? no need to turn?
Thanks for the info

I've not had any issue with mine. I use Winchester 338 brass pretty much exclusively. I have not tried 264 win mag brass, seems like it would end up even shorter than 7mm rem mag and it's not usually easy to find or cheap. If you decide to try forming from 300 win mag or to a lesser extent 308 Norma mag use a quality sizing wax and warm up your trimmer. If your working up a load for a long range hunting round this maybe the way to go as there is a lot of high quality 300 win mag brass floating around on the market. You will need to "pre-trim" the cases and Be ready for some stuck cases in the sizing die. A chamber casting will go a long ways toward being certain of the neck diameter used for your chamber and ameliorate a lot of wasted time just "trying stuff". 30/338 win mag isn't a speed demon but it does make very good use of the powder you feed it. Ymmv

 

[Trickymissfit]

I am beginning the build of a 30/338 on a manners T5A Win M70 26" krieger for coues whitetail and antelope over there in the other county. P.O.Ackley's #1 gives me from 150 to 250 fps more than the 300 Win. with 150 and 165 grain pills. My biggest question is who provides the most accurate "out of the box" brass? Qual Cart offers proper headstamped brass, but I purchased five boxes of 460 Short A Square from them a few years back and many of the case bodies already had splits (enough to let light in). I inspected them all as best I could and returned two whole boxes for defects. Other calibers I have not had probs with but I am a little leery.
Also, should I invest in a set of competition dies? If I size from 300 Win or 338 Win, should I employ an inside-neck turner?

If you just gotta do the 30/.338, then use .308 Norma mag brass. But you'd be better off build a .308 Norma mag in the long run. The case is a better design than the 30/.338, and the longer neck handles big heavy bullets much better than the shorter necked case. But if your shooting light 30 caliber bullets you won't see a lot of difference other than barrel life. Add this plus the fact that the .308 Norma is known to be more accurate than the .300 Win Mag and the 30/.338. The difference in the cases is about .001" accross the board with the exception of the Norma's longer neck length.
gary

 

[Trnelson]

If you just gotta do the 30/.338, then use .308 Norma mag brass. But you'd be better off build a .308 Norma mag in the long run. The case is a better design than the 30/.338, and the longer neck handles big heavy bullets much better than the shorter necked case. But if your shooting light 30 caliber bullets you won't see a lot of difference other than barrel life. Add this plus the fact that the .308 Norma is known to be more accurate than the .300 Win Mag and the 30/.338. The difference in the cases is about .001" accross the board with the exception of the Norma's longer neck length.
gary

Not to muddy the waters with facts or start a flame however some facts listed are not correct and merit polite correction. First is that why the AMU used the 30/338 Win for several years instead of the 308 Norma Magnum when they were concurrently available? The 30/338 winchester was created in 1958 by Fred Huntinton of RCBS fame. It was designed specifically as a 1,000 yard bench rest cartridge and an improvement to the 300 H&H Magnum. According to the Sierra Edition V 5th Printing Manual the 30/338 is superior in terms of velocity to the 308 Norma mag in 150g, 175g, 190g, 200g, and 220g. It is also more efficient than the 308 Norma Mag as it requires less powder for the most part to achieve the same velocity for a given bullet weight. The 308 Norma does have a neck that is .018" longer than the 30/338 and .053" longer than the 300 win mag. Typically rifles chambered 308 Norma mag have a free bore area of 5/32" to 7/32" which doesn't do anything to improve accuracy as it makes it nearly impossible to load without jumping the bullet more than .010". The 308 Norma mag is a fine cartridge in its own right, and is effective, however it simply is not superior to the 300 Winchester mag or even the 30/338 Winchester. YMMV

 

[cwhuntsalot]

I appreciate all the responses to my querie. Since I do not have the resources or the time to do the research myself, I try to utilize these forums to gather as much information as quickly as I can. Opinions, experiences, as well as black & white facts are all part of my decision making process. I realize no matter what I decide someone will think I made the wrong choice. Nothing personal friends, but MY opinion counts for some as well-if my opinion trumps your facts it's nothing personal, it's my rifle.
Thanks again for all your help on this and all other issues I am dealing with and will deal with in the future. Curtis

 

[Trickymissfit]

Not to muddy the waters with facts or start a flame however some facts listed are not correct and merit polite correction. First is that why the AMU used the 30/338 Win for several years instead of the 308 Norma Magnum when they were concurrently available? The 30/338 winchester was created in 1958 by Fred Huntinton of RCBS fame. It was designed specifically as a 1,000 yard bench rest cartridge and an improvement to the 300 H&H Magnum. According to the Sierra Edition V 5th Printing Manual the 30/338 is superior in terms of velocity to the 308 Norma mag in 150g, 175g, 190g, 200g, and 220g. It is also more efficient than the 308 Norma Mag as it requires less powder for the most part to achieve the same velocity for a given bullet weight. The 308 Norma does have a neck that is .018" longer than the 30/338 and .053" longer than the 300 win mag. Typically rifles chambered 308 Norma mag have a free bore area of 5/32" to 7/32" which doesn't do anything to improve accuracy as it makes it nearly impossible to load without jumping the bullet more than .010". The 308 Norma mag is a fine cartridge in its own right, and is effective, however it simply is not superior to the 300 Winchester mag or even the 30/338 Winchester. YMMV

Note: I also said with heavy bullets. When using the small stuff the other is better (.300 Win). But when you move into the 200+ grain bullets the Norma mag shows up in force. I also consider the Sierra manual to be good bird cage liner most of the time. The neck is about .14" (figuring on a 2.56 case in the Hogdon sketch) longer with the Norma, and that alone makes for a better design with 200 grain bullets. With 165 grain bullets there will be no differnce between them. Add to this the known fact that longer necks usually produce longer barrel life. I see where your comming from with the free bore issue, but also beg to differ with you when you load a 220 grain bullet in the chamber. There are still a small few that are using the .308 Norma in 1000 yard benchrest shooting, but have not seen a 30-.338 listed in a very long time. To be exact there are less and less .300 Win mags every year as well. With a 220 grain bullet .218" of freebore means very little, but can see the issue with 165 grain bullets. Actually that free bore (as long as it's not excessive) will alow you to seat the bullet well out of the shoulder, and a good long at the long range section in the AA manual shows this. The 200 grain bullet in the 30-.338 (or Norma) goes at about 2900fps, but the same bullet in the .300 mag goes goes the same speed with seven grains more powder in the Hogdon manual (most manuals show it much slower)

Interesting conversation, but i'm staying with the Norma mag.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

I appreciate all the responses to my querie. Since I do not have the resources or the time to do the research myself, I try to utilize these forums to gather as much information as quickly as I can. Opinions, experiences, as well as black & white facts are all part of my decision making process. I realize no matter what I decide someone will think I made the wrong choice. Nothing personal friends, but MY opinion counts for some as well-if my opinion trumps your facts it's nothing personal, it's my rifle.
Thanks again for all your help on this and all other issues I am dealing with and will deal with in the future. Curtis

there is nothing wrong with a 30-338, but a standard Norma is the exact samething with a better neck design, and the cases are already done. That's all I'm saying. Freebore can be cut however you want it tobe (gotta order a reamer anyway). Dies for each round are cataloged by some folks, and virtually all do the .308 Norma (will work just fine for the 30-338). Why whip a dead horse?
gary

 

[TOM H]

I appreciate all the responses to my querie. Since I do not have the resources or the time to do the research myself, I try to utilize these forums to gather as much information as quickly as I can. Opinions, experiences, as well as black & white facts are all part of my decision making process. I realize no matter what I decide someone will think I made the wrong choice. Nothing personal friends, but MY opinion counts for some as well-if my opinion trumps your facts it's nothing personal, it's my rifle.
Thanks again for all your help on this and all other issues I am dealing with and will deal with in the future. Curtis

I had my first 30-338mag build early 80's and I talked to Fred Jr over RCBS about his dad's first build and he said they still had the rifle and hunted with it. I was out to Calif couple years ago and stopped by Huntington and they said Fred Jr still had that rifle.

I build what I want so I don't worry about comparing. I'm on my 3rd 30-338mag first one I put 1/12 twist barrel next one did 1/10 latest has a 1/11 twist barrel. I neck up 7mag brass have no problems with necks. I've had other projects the last few years so only made one deer hunt with the latest 30-338mag and I'm hoping to made a elk hunt with it this year.

Well good luck