Looking for a good all around bullet for .308 win.

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by 4ked Horn, Mar 2, 2005.

  1. Hornady 165 SST

    10.6%
  2. Horn 165 Amax

    14.6%
  3. Horn 168 HPBT Match

    3.5%
  4. Nosler 165 Ballistic tip

    19.2%
  5. Nos 165 Ballistic Silver tip

    6.1%
  6. Nos 168 J4 HPBT

    3.0%
  7. Sierra 165 Game king HPBT

    10.6%
  8. Sie 165 Game king Spitzer BT

    10.1%
  9. Sie 168 Match king HPBT

    21.2%
  10. Speer 165 Spitzer BT

    0.5%
  11. Spe 165 Deep Shok

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. Spe 168 HPBT Match

    0.5%
  1. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    I am in the process of reevaluating a bullet choice for my .308 win Rem VLS. I will mostly be shooting targets and rock chucks in practice for shooting LR deer. I am considering accuracy and BC and terminal performance on deer first and varmints second. These choices are all within my price range.

    I am making this a poll to reduce any chance of starting the same ol' discussion and to encourage participation from those who are sick of answering this type of question for everyone in every caliber.

    Please post any comments you feel are HELPFUL.

    I will ask the almighty mods to nuke any arguments. The whole thread if necessary.
     
  2. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    To be honest, you really do not list a bad bullet up there for performance on deer size game. I have shot most of these bullets and all have performed well in certain rifles.

    Bullets like the Ballistic Tips, Sierra Kings and Hornady bullets generally shoot very well in most rifles and handguns. Of the three I like ht eon game performance of the Ballistic Tip the best because of its solid base and heavier tapered jacket.

    The Speer Deep Shock has alot of potential but I fear that it will not be given a fair shake simply because it is a "Speer" bullet.

    The only bullet I would say may be a bit sub par compared to the rest in accuracy would be the Speer 165 gr Spitzer as I have found some of these bullets, the HotCore design anyway, can at times have air pockets in the core which is a result of the bullet making process with this bullet.

    This inconsistancy can be a problem at longer ranges.

    Really, whichever your rifle likes is the best pick. As far as for use on deer, there is not a bullet in the bunch that would not get the job done at 308 velocities.

    Good shooting,

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  3. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    Thanks for you input Kirby. I actually got to tour the speer/CCI plant as a machining student and I picked up a sample of each stage of the process. I did not know about the air pocket problem so I am glad you told me.
     
  4. abinok

    abinok Writers Guild

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    I was all excited... untill I couldn't find the 175SMK.
    Was this an oversite, or a intentional exclusion?
    For 308, there isn't really a better match of bc, and velocity.
     
  5. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    4ked Horn,

    I have only seen this in the Hot COre bullets and have only proven in the 160 gr 7mm bullet as several years ago I milled a cross section of the bullets and found the air pockets on several.

    IT is not a huge problem, in fact probably less the 5% of the bullets but it was a problem several years back, maybe they have corrected the problem since I do not know.

    Easy to find out, weight the bullets and any with air pockets will be very obvious.

    GOod Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  6. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    Abinok. I am seeking (as are we all) a good ballance of velocity and BC adding up to a decent terminal momentum. I considered including bullets in these lines from 150gr up to and including 180 but the list would have been way to long.

    I will consider your post as a vote for these. Could you tell me what sort of velocities you are getting with these in a .308 so I can plunk it into a ballistics calculator and compare it with the others?

    Thanks.
     
  7. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    Kirby, I was pressed for time earlier but wanted to reply. Now I will ask if you know anything about the Speer Deep Shok bullets? I see in the Midway catalog that they seem to use the same hot core process to construct them but these and the Hornady SST have me quite interested.

    I will probably call speer before buying them to discuss the air pocket issue and to see if they have resolved it. Again I appreciate the heads up on this issue.
     
  8. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    I was very interested in the Deep Shock when they initially came on the market, I believe Federal was promoting them inititally but I may be wrong.

    They offered very good B.C. values on par with the Ballistic Tips but with what appeared to be a stronger bullet construction.

    Since Speer started making the bullets, the price seemed to jump so I just never did try them. I would say the Deep Shock is stouter then the SST by a fair amount. This is not a real concern in the 308 Win though. Accuracy is key so which ever shoots better is the one I would use. Both will perform well in big game at these velocity levels.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  9. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    Abinok I just checked out the Sierra site and the BC for the 168 gr MK is listed as .447 at standard muzzle velocity for the .308. I then found that the 175 AND 180 grain MKs had a BC of .496 at standard MV. I had never noticed this before (never really thought to look.) but it would seem that this would weigh in favor of the weight to BC ratio. 7 gr heavier than 168 but the BC of a 12 gr heavier bullet. Very cool. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

    What would be extremely cool is if you had some velocities I could compare where you used the same powder on these bullets shot out of the same gun. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif (Thats cool x 2.)
     
  10. gonehuntingagain

    gonehuntingagain Well-Known Member

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    150 or 180 gr Accubond!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    Does this post mean that you will actually go out deer hunting this year? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  11. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    Midway:

    Nosler BT 165 = .23 each
    Nosler Accubond 180 = .32 each
    Sierra MK 168 = .18 each
    Sierra MK 175 = .19 each

    See where this is going?

    And the answer is the same as always. I will hunt deer if I have the time (unless I get the Twin Falls draw then I will make time.)
     
  12. abinok

    abinok Writers Guild

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    These loads were fired in a Savage 110 "police" with a 26" barrel. They are over max according to sierra, but under in several other manuals. Federal Gold Medal primers used for all loads.

    168 gr SMK
    43.6 grains of IMR 4895 2812fps


    175 gr SMK
    42.4 grains IMR 4895 2709fps

    175 gr SMK
    45.0 grains of Varget 2770fps

    These loads are just under max, just a little slower...

    168 gr SMK
    48.4 grains of H-380 2702fps

    175 gr SMK
    47.0 grains of H-380 2597fps

    It dosn't really matter which load use, you can push the 168 about 100fps faster than the 175.
    if you look at energy, the 175 is better everywhere past 300
    if you look at velocity, th 175 will overtake and pass the 168 at 450yds.
    I ran a camparison with a 250 yd zero for both bullets, and the two never seperate more than .25" from 0yds to 250.
    past 850yds, the 168 will take more moa to get on target, because the 175 actually has a flatter trajectory out there.
    One last thought to sway you, the 168 gr has dynamic stability problems, and will not shoot through the transsonic barrier. The 168 goes transsonic around 900 yds, so kiss the chance at a 1000 yd shot good bye.
    The 175 stays supersonic to just over 1000, and stays accurate even after it goes through the sound barrier.
    At 900 yds the 175 in a 10mph crosswind has 10" less wind drift.
    A friend shoots the "little" (he hates when I say that) 308 from a Knight sr25. We tried the 168 gr Federal GMM at my 1350 yd, 8x8 foot target. never hit it in 30 rounds. Tried the 175 Federal GMM, and once we had the elevation (took about 5 shots I think...) every round burrowed throught the target.
    For me the 308 win=175 smk
     
  13. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    Abinok That was an interesting post. You have elloquently stated your position and I am all but sold on these for my next .308 bullet of choice. In fact I just gave this topic a 3 star rating because of the great information you and Fifty have brought to light at least for me. I'm hoping the stars will attract the attention of others that might have overlooked this topic. Thanks.

    [ QUOTE ]
    One last thought to sway you, the 168 gr has dynamic stability problems, and will not shoot through the transsonic barrier. The 168 goes transsonic around 900 yds, so kiss the chance at a 1000 yd shot good bye.
    The 175 stays supersonic to just over 1000, and stays accurate even after it goes through the sound brrier.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Could you build on this point please. Is this instability a problem for all 168s or just the SMK? I am aware that there is a turbulence "step" when crossing the sonic barrier either way but what exactly is this instability and what causes it. I am not a mathematician or an engineer but the ballistics area of shooting is brobably the most facinating to me.

    I love the information that can get passed from shooter to shooter when we get past the "same ol' discussion" and get on to teaching and learning.
     
  14. gonehuntingagain

    gonehuntingagain Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Midway:

    Nosler BT 165 = .23 each
    Nosler Accubond 180 = .32 each
    Sierra MK 168 = .18 each
    Sierra MK 175 = .19 each

    See where this is going?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The Nosler J4 that you are shooting now = &lt; .16 each
    Are they just not accurate enough for you, or are you afraid that they will not drop a deer?

    I have been thinking about the 175 gr bullet before, but this thread makes me want to look into it as well....