Improving the 308 Win performance

[44-40]

So today I decided to do yet another 308 Win test ...
308 LC primed brass to see what was possible with this cheap brass.
test rifle, 308 W 22" 9 twist Bartlein with 2.980" mag
155 Lapua scenar 3098 fps with 2000MR
225 ELDM 2543 fps single feed good load
208 ELDM 2549 fps ...fit my mag. good load
230 Atip 2552 fps ave ..one went 2588 fps
230 gr SMK 2486 fps ...good load low S/D
250 Atip 2319 fps, did not load with enough powder to hit the top velocity.
18" AR 10 ..with a few rds
225 Eldm 2455 fps good load consists.
250 Atip 2219 fps ...2 grains down no full charges left to try, plus just for fun..unstable.
The 30" 8 twist LC brass 155 scenar had a velocity of 3220 fps.
A bunch of other loads were tried in 18" AR, 22" bolt, and 30" bolt to compare velocity with bullets from 130 to 250 Atips. The 230s 225s bring the energy high BC in the 8 & 9 twist, with cheap throw away brass, and the 22" 9 twist is versatile...the .8 BC 230 SMK was accurate and consistent, and more powder can be added under it to match the 230 Atip, to get the 2550 fps. Plus I have Lapua cases SR & LR, and the famous reformed bimetal 277 Fury cases to 308. An interesting and productive day...you can go cheap and still play.

 

[nralifer]

So today I decided to do yet another 308 Win test ...
308 LC primed brass to see what was possible with this cheap brass.
test rifle, 308 W 22" 9 twist Bartlein with 2.980" mag
155 Lapua scenar 3098 fps with 2000MR
225 ELDM 2543 fps single feed good load
208 ELDM 2549 fps ...fit my mag. good load
230 Atip 2552 fps ave ..one went 2588 fps
230 gr SMK 2486 fps ...good load low S/D
250 Atip 2319 fps, did not load with enough powder to hit the top velocity.
18" AR 10 ..with a few rds
225 Eldm 2455 fps good load consists.
250 Atip 2219 fps ...2 grains down no full charges left to try, plus just for fun..unstable.
The 30" 8 twist LC brass 155 scenar had a velocity of 3220 fps.
A bunch of other loads were tried in 18" AR, 22" bolt, and 30" bolt to compare velocity with bullets from 130 to 250 Atips. The 230s 225s bring the energy high BC in the 8 & 9 twist, with cheap throw away brass, and the 22" 9 twist is versatile...the .8 BC 230 SMK was accurate and consistent, and more powder can be added under it to match the 230 Atip, to get the 2550 fps. Plus I have Lapua cases SR & LR, and the famous reformed bimetal 277 Fury cases to 308. An interesting and productive day...you can go cheap and still play.

I think your data is interesting and gives me the idea to try our 205 gr 308 SBD2 in the 308 from a 24" Bartlein 1:9 twist barrel to see how it compares to the 225 and 230 gr Hornady bullets you tested. The 150 gr BD2 to 600 yds compares favorably to all the bullets you tested as it shoots flatter, has over 1500 ft-lbs of retained energy, but it's wind drift is a few inches more. As you might imagine, heavy for caliber bullets may have substantially higher BCs but you lose so much in MV that at 600 yds and before the lighter bullet has a flatter trajectory. From that barrel I am able to safely push the 205 gr BD2 to 3200 fps with Starline SRP brass. Give me a few days to get the data.

 

[44-40]

I think your data is interesting and gives me the idea to try our 205 gr 308 SBD2 in the 308 from a 24" Bartlein 1:9 twist barrel to see how it compares to the 225 and 230 gr Hornady bullets you tested. The 150 gr BD2 to 600 yds compares favorably to all the bullets you tested as it shoots flatter, has over 1500 ft-lbs of retained energy, but it's wind drift is a few inches more. As you might imagine, heavy for caliber bullets may have substantially higher BCs but you lose so much in MV that at 600 yds and before the lighter bullet has a flatter trajectory. From that barrel I am able to safely push the 205 gr BD2 to 3200 fps with Starline SRP brass. Give me a few days to get the data.

Always looking to improve performance, whether hunting, target shooting, or just for fun. Thinking outside the envelope of the normal everyday ideas and loads . I use both Lapua LR & SR Palma brass...but also have 800 6.8 hybrid cases that can easily be reformed to 308 Win. for the 80,000 psi for added performance to the 308Win. And I have the added advantage of being a retired machinist with machine tools to do all my own rifle work, case reforming, making dies, and making alterations to most everything...has turned into a large extensive, expensive hobby.

 

[BearSpray]

Very interested in trying out the 150 BD2s I just ordered in my Springfield Waypoint .308. The info about LVR is very intriguing as well. I'm in Texas where it's f'ing hot at the moment, and will be developing a load to go elk hunting in Colorado in October with. It sounds like LVR is pretty temp sensitive though. Does anyone have experience with it in that regard? I'm going from warm to cold so assuming the load I come up with would be safe, just might need to bring my chrono into the mountains and shoot a few through it before setting off to see what effect the temp had on them!

 

[JAYgs8163]

Very interested in trying out the 150 BD2s I just ordered in my Springfield Waypoint .308. The info about LVR is very intriguing as well. I'm in Texas where it's f'ing hot at the moment, and will be developing a load to go elk hunting in October with. It sounds like LVR is pretty temp sensitive though. Does anyone have experience with it in that regard? I'm going from warm to cold so assuming the load I come up with would be safe, just might need to bring my chronic into the mountains and shoot a few through it before setting off to see what effect the temp had on them!

Im sure you'll have some good data by then to use that other members will share!

 

[44-40]

Very interested in trying out the 150 BD2s I just ordered in my Springfield Waypoint .308. The info about LVR is very intriguing as well. I'm in Texas where it's f'ing hot at the moment, and will be developing a load to go elk hunting in Colorado in October with. It sounds like LVR is pretty temp sensitive though. Does anyone have experience with it in that regard? I'm going from warm to cold so assuming the load I come up with would be safe, just might need to bring my chrono into the mountains and shoot a few through it before setting off to see what effect the temp had on them!

Temperature sensitivity is a variable with a lot of variable factors..the powder lot the temperature fence posts, for example.
Number one for the 308Win is AR- Comp 45.2 gr with a 150 gr bullet.
N150 Next, ...then 3rd Varget...
But I'd pick Varget 2nd personality because I've used alot of it. But N150 is next to Leverevolution in burn speed.
I shoot Leverevolution and other ball powders in the 6mm ARC, and even in the 308 win a bit but was never concerned with temperature sensitivity, cause I'm just out informal target shooting. Ball powders can be accurate but those and some stick powders are rather temp sensitive. Staball line is pretty good for a ball powder, RL 15 is pretty bad for a stick powder, then the new 15.5 is supposed to much better, as reported but I never used it, cause like many it's not available. AR-Comp would be my choice to try to get accuracy with good velocity and temperature stable, for 308 150 gr.

 

[nralifer]

Very interested in trying out the 150 BD2s I just ordered in my Springfield Waypoint .308. The info about LVR is very intriguing as well. I'm in Texas where it's f'ing hot at the moment, and will be developing a load to go elk hunting in Colorado in October with. It sounds like LVR is pretty temp sensitive though. Does anyone have experience with it in that regard? I'm going from warm to cold so assuming the load I come up with would be safe, just might need to bring my chrono into the mountains and shoot a few through it before setting off to see what effect the temp had on them!

I think you are correct. You might try starting out with 47 gr and get to a muzzle velocity of 3050 fps. Remember, in Colorado the bullet will be traveling through a much lower atmospheric pressure so even if you don't see a significant increase in MV, your point of impact will be higher because the bullet will shed less energy at any given distance. Sounds like an exciting time. Would love to see your trophy.

 

[shootnpoke]

Bear Spray, I shot some Hammer HHT 154 gr in my 20" 308 last week. LVR powder. Starline brass(new with primer pockets uniformed and mouth chamfered and debuted). I was only looking for pressure so single rounds from 45.5 to 49.5 gr. I loaded one extra at 46.0, 47.0, and 48.0 and put them in freezer overnight, took to range in cooler with frozen water bottles and ice packs. Shot these 3 rounds first cooling with barrel cooler about 3 to 5 minutes between shots. I am at work now but will try to post numbers when I get home tonight. I honestly was expecting a lot more velocity differences with the cold rounds compared to the air temp ones.
Difference was about 40 degrees. I did have some intermittent very light ejector marks but the ejector spring is way too heavy for my liking on my Impact action. I actually had to look very hard to see them.

 

[hunterbob]

This thread would be dedicated to ways to improve the performance of the 308 Win or the 7.62x51 mm cartridge without wildcatting the case. Experienced and innovative reloaders should find this interesting and are encouraged to participate. The 308Win is so versatile, inherently accurate and commonly used, and yet its performance in terms of MV, trajectory and speed is a bit mediocre. I am sure it can out perform the 3006. To start with I offer up my favorite hunting load I have used for the past 6/7 years in the 308Win. The 150 gr BD or BD2 with 49 gr of Leverevolution going 2920 fps from a 1:10, 20"Douglas barrel in a short action rifle. The same load from a 24" Bartlein 1:9 twist barrel goes 3050 fps. This load would be a pretty decent long range Elk load to 900 yds or so.

I think you would do better with a 165-168 SST. That's what I would use. I wasted my time with the 150 gr until I realized a 308 loves a165-168 gr. With varget.
Not hot loads either. More accurate at long range too. Don't try to compare the 308 an 3006. You can't make better calibers though. The 30-06 is the most versatile rifle for a shooter and a reloader. The options with the 06 exceed any other. It just starts to perform at 200 yds.

 

[JAYgs8163]

I think you would do better with a 165-168 SST. That's what I would use. I wasted my time with the 150 gr until I realized a 308 loves a165-168 gr. With varget.
Not hot loads either. More accurate at long range too. Don't try to compare the 308 an 3006. You can't make better calibers though. The 30-06 is the most versatile rifle for a shooter and a reloader. The options with the 06 exceed any other. It just starts to perform at 200 yds.

You may want to read a little deeper into this thread and see some of the results we've been having with monolithic Badlands Bulldozer 150.

 

[nralifer]

900 yards on an Elk? I'm seeing less than 550 ft/bls at 900y even if you're pushing it at 3050 fps.

I'm also sort of curious what you're saying it about it outperforming 30-06 when your standard velocities for a 150grn load are going to be 2850-3000 fps. Let alone going to a heavier bullet with the '06 like a 180grn you'll still be high 2700's starting velocity.

But all that aside. I've got two favored loads for my .308s, 168 SMKs I don't push them real fast but I've taken hundreds of hogs from 0-250 yards and a lot of deer. My new favorite, within the last three years, are 110 V-Max moving at about 2950 fps out of a short-ish barrel is doing amazing work for me at the ranges I hunt from coyotes to hogs to deer and was shockingly accurrate, don't tear up magazines, and feed well through a semi.
[/

I think you would do better with a 165-168 SST. That's what I would use. I wasted my time with the 150 gr until I realized a 308 loves a165-168 gr. With varget.
Not hot loads either. More accurate at long range too. Don't try to compare the 308 an 3006. You can't make better calibers though. The 30-06 is the most versatile rifle for a shooter and a reloader. The options with the 06 exceed any other. It just starts to perform at 200 yds.

Take a look at the video and the trajectory chart

 

[shootnpoke]

@Bear Spray, here are the numbers I got the other day with the LVR and 154 HHT. I was using cheap cooking thermometers to record temps so they might be off a little. I actually think the cold rounds were colder than the 44 degrees it was reading.

46.0 gr 44 degrees 2792 fps 81 degrees 2827 fps
47.0 gr 44* 2861 fps 82* 2881 fps
48.0 gr 44* 2912 fps 85* 2925 fps
49.0 gr 44* 2925 fps 88* 2966 fps

Sample sizes were only one round of each so take from it what you will. Of course it would have been nice to have the rifle cold too but no such luck. Hope this helps a little. Will try to do a similar test next week with three round samples of one charge wgt, or maybe two.

 

[JAYgs8163]

Very interested in trying out the 150 BD2s I just ordered in my Springfield Waypoint .308. The info about LVR is very intriguing as well. I'm in Texas where it's f'ing hot at the moment, and will be developing a load to go elk hunting in Colorado in October with. It sounds like LVR is pretty temp sensitive though. Does anyone have experience with it in that regard? I'm going from warm to cold so assuming the load I come up with would be safe, just might need to bring my chrono into the mountains and shoot a few through it before setting off to see what effect the temp had on them!

See my post #947 for warm weather data.

 

[44-40]

@Bear Spray, here are the numbers I got the other day with the LVR and 154 HHT. I was using cheap cooking thermometers to record temps so they might be off a little. I actually think the cold rounds were colder than the 44 degrees it was reading.

46.0 gr 44 degrees 2792 fps 81 degrees 2827 fps
47.0 gr 44* 2861 fps 82* 2881 fps
48.0 gr 44* 2912 fps 85* 2925 fps
49.0 gr 44* 2925 fps 88* 2966 fps

Sample sizes were only one round of each so take from it what you will. Of course it would have been nice to have the rifle cold too but no such luck. Hope this helps a little. Will try to do a similar test next week with three round samples of one charge wgt, or maybe two.

With 308 Win 22" 5 R Bartlein 9 twist I did not get those velocities with 49.1 gr of Leverevolution 150 gr bullet was 2860 fps max at 88° I shot a bunch of primed LC brass, never fired, shot the 155 Scenar 47.5 gr Varget 2994 fps with new LC and 2950 fps with Lapua LR brass. The LC primers were flat but just deprimed, and removed primer crimp, and they are still tight. 2000MR hit 3098 fps same 155 gr bullet, same temp, same day. I'd go with Varget, as it is a good temp insensitive powder, and accurate. Yrs ago I fired 17,000 match rds at 1000 to 1400 yds year rd in the mountains 308, Varget, 155 Lapua, Lapua bras 210M primer, 26" & 27" barrels at around 2980 to 3020 fps and several barrels top Varget load was always accurate and consistent...shot squirrels at 500 to past 1000 yds with it. It was good for squirrels but light for elk, at long range.
I have recover many bullets around 1000 yds to 1400 yds...150 gr Nosler BT at 3000 fps muzzle velocity could be picked out of the dirt and reloaded except the rifling, plastic tip still intact some had a rock dent, but otherwise no damage plastic tip broke off some...no mushrooms even starting on any after plowing into rocky dirt. I know it's about LR hunting, but I live in the west and had no trouble killing every bull elk at 100 yds or less, with scope set on lowest power 2X or 3 X for every game animal I pulled the trigger on. With 7 mag, but mostly 338 mag, 350 Rem mag. And a bow and arrow....yesterday deer were out early 1 in the afternoon 88,° turkey, squirrels, and tiny quail, teaspoon size. Have fun testing...