I have a 300 WSM. I have TS 15.5. I want to load 150 badlands bd2's. Where to start?

[SuperBruce]

I want to run 150 badlands bd2's in a 300 WSM and TS 15.5 seems like an appealing powder which I happen to have plenty of. However, there is zero 300 wsm data for ts 15.5 in 300 wsm as far as I've found which is not surprising. Why not just use RL16 or H4350? 1: I'm curious, 2: Hodgdon data with 150's IMR 4166 appears to best H4350 so velocity seem equal and the faster powder may group better in a short barrel (20" + suppressor). However, this would be my first time loading a cartridge with so little starting data and using a powder where I can (most likely) add way to much, so I figured I'd double check with the internet before beginning.

I was planning to load a couple cartridges using Hodgdons minimum 300 WSM Varget data for a 150 class bullet and see where I land velocity wise and go from there. TS 15.5 is allegedly slightly slower burning than Varget so that should keep my fingers attached and get me some crono numbers which should get me started. In 30/06, which has data from Alliant and Hodgdon, it appears TS 15.5 maxes out 2 or 3 grains higher than Varget in all weight classes, consistent with being slightly slower. With my combo, I expect to top out about 3200 fps, give or take, based on Hodgdon data for that bullet.

So, how bad of a plan is this? I'm open to better ideas, links to better ideas, etc. Thanks in advance.

 

[SuperBruce]

I got a thumbsup from @Bucklowery so I had at it. I loaded two rounds with 55.0gr and seated to 0.060" off the lands which is an odd number but that is where I had to load it in order to span the groove in the bullet. Case fill was lower than I'd expected but it seems I also have quite a bit more powder to add so I'm optimistic I'll get good case fill in the end. Velocity averaged 3060 fps out of a 24" barrel and the two shots grouped close enough to buy another box of projectiles and see where it goes.

 

[Bucklowery]

Keep us posted how it goes as you continue with load development

Thanks

Buck

 

[SuperBruce]

I forgot to post an update and just got pinged about it, so I figure I should add it here for future readers.

I loaded a small ladder and velocities were reasonable and so were the groups but the case fill didn't look like it was going to be compressed before pressuring out. I didn't persue it further and ended up using the 175 BD2 over RL16. I think RL16 and H4350 would likely be better powders for this situation but TS 15.5 would certainly have worked.

 

[FEENIX]

I want to run 150 badlands bd2's in a 300 WSM and TS 15.5 seems like an appealing powder which I happen to have plenty of. However, there is zero 300 wsm data for ts 15.5 in 300 wsm as far as I've found which is not surprising. Why not just use RL16 or H4350? 1: I'm curious, 2: Hodgdon data with 150's IMR 4166 appears to best H4350 so velocity seem equal and the faster powder may group better in a short barrel (20" + suppressor). However, this would be my first time loading a cartridge with so little starting data and using a powder where I can (most likely) add way to much, so I figured I'd double check with the internet before beginning.

I was planning to load a couple cartridges using Hodgdons minimum 300 WSM Varget data for a 150 class bullet and see where I land velocity wise and go from there. TS 15.5 is allegedly slightly slower burning than Varget so that should keep my fingers attached and get me some crono numbers which should get me started. In 30/06, which has data from Alliant and Hodgdon, it appears TS 15.5 maxes out 2 or 3 grains higher than Varget in all weight classes, consistent with being slightly slower. With my combo, I expect to top out about 3200 fps, give or take, based on Hodgdon data for that bullet.

So, how bad of a plan is this? I'm open to better ideas, links to better ideas, etc. Thanks in advance.

Contact George (@nralifer) from Badlands directly for recommendations.

 

[nralifer]

Contact George (@nralifer) from Badlands directly for recommendations.

FEENIX, thank you for the referral. I have no experience with TS15.5 but in reading about it it looks very interesting. Consistent, yields low ES suggesting it is not quirky. I think what is relevant here, is the powder's burn rate appropriate for shooting the 150 BD2 in the WSM? Alliant says it's burn rate is between RL15 and RL16, but that is a fairly wide gap. There is published data on Varget use in the 300 WSM shooting 150 gr bullets, and according to the rather extensive relative burn rate chart in the 2021 Hodgdon Annual Manual Varget is closer to RL15 in burn rate than to RL16. What I would try is a TS15.5 charge equivalent to the lowest listed Varget charge listed ( 55 gr Varget in the 2021 Hodgdon Annual Manual for 150 gr bullet in the 300 WSM) and see, using a flash light, if the powder level within the case is similar to the level achieved by Varget. If so, then I'm assured that the charge density is not too low. Load the bullet to a COAL that will give a 0.030-0.035" jump, and fire the round not using a mag primer. If you can document the speed all the better. Look at the primer radius carefully and compare it to a seated unfired primer. Best way is to take a pic using your phone camera with the cases side by side and magnify the image. Use unfired brass for this first shot. If things look good and the velocity is low then you know that pressure is low. Then you can gradually increase the TS15.5 charge by 1 gr increments until you start to see early pressure signs or you get to a speed you are happy with.

 

[SuperBruce]

TS 15.5 is generally considered to be slightly slower burning than Varget, including by the 2023 Hodgdon burn rate chart (here). The load density should be slightly higher for TS 15.5 than Varget for the same charge: it's on the slightly bulky side, nearly the same as RL16, and you'll want a slightly higher charge compared to Varget. Iirc, with the 150 BD2, the load density wasn't by any means terrible, just not the slightly compressed that I usually hope for. However, the ES/SD seems very acceptable especially for a hunting load. Velocity wise they were doing quite well: I got them up to 3100 fps out of a fresh 20" barrel before I tried the 175's.

 

[nralifer]

TS 15.5 is generally considered to be slightly slower burning than Varget, including by the 2023 Hodgdon burn rate chart (here). The load density should be slightly higher for TS 15.5 than Varget for the same charge: it's on the slightly bulky side, nearly the same as RL16, and you'll want a slightly higher charge compared to Varget. Iirc, with the 150 BD2, the load density wasn't by any means terrible, just not the slightly compressed that I usually hope for. However, the ES/SD seems very acceptable especially for a hunting load. Velocity wise they were doing quite well: I got them up to 3100 fps out of a fresh 20" barrel before I tried the 175's.

All that is great info. The fact that TS15.5 is slower burning than Varget but higher energy makes this powder useful in every case that uses Varget.

 

[nralifer]

I forgot to post an update and just got pinged about it, so I figure I should add it here for future readers.

I loaded a small ladder and velocities were reasonable and so were the groups but the case fill didn't look like it was going to be compressed before pressuring out. I didn't persue it further and ended up using the 175 BD2 over RL16. I think RL16 and H4350 would likely be better powders for this situation but TS 15.5 would certainly have worked.

In the future you might consider Lapua Palma brass since it can handle somewhat higher pressures than LRP brass. Thanks for the follow up. I am anxious to try TS15.5

 

[nralifer]

I got a thumbsup from @Bucklowery so I had at it. I loaded two rounds with 55.0gr and seated to 0.060" off the lands which is an odd number but that is where I had to load it in order to span the groove in the bullet. Case fill was lower than I'd expected but it seems I also have quite a bit more powder to add so I'm optimistic I'll get good case fill in the end. Velocity averaged 3060 fps out of a 24" barrel and the two shots grouped close enough to buy another box of projectiles and see where it goes.

You could load the bullet out further assuming you are using the 150gr BD2 bullet. That will put you about 0.035" off the lands.

 

[SuperBruce]

In the future you might consider Lapua Palma brass since it can handle somewhat higher pressures than LRP brass. Thanks for the follow up. I am anxious to try TS15.5

I may do that for 308 Win, but the info above is related to 300 WSM using Norma brass.

However, I have tried the 150 BD2 in 308 win and was having a hard time getting sub moa groups, all but certainly due to the long jump. My 308 rifle internal mag box gives me no extra room so unless I want to single load I'm stuck to 2.810" COL, which is a huge jump for the 150's. I tried Varget and H4895 (H4895 gave slightly better results) powders, but I imagine that with TS15.5 there wouldn't be enough room in the case to compete with either Varget or H4895.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

FWIW - Using both Varget and RE15.5 in my 6mmBR, the velocities were exactly the same using the same charge weights. SDs were lower with Varget.

 

[nralifer]

I may do that for 308 Win, but the info above is related to 300 WSM using Norma brass.

However, I have tried the 150 BD2 in 308 win and was having a hard time getting sub moa groups, all but certainly due to the long jump. My 308 rifle internal mag box gives me no extra room so unless I want to single load I'm stuck to 2.810" COL, which is a huge jump for the 150's. I tried Varget and H4895 (H4895 gave slightly better results) powders, but I imagine that with TS15.5 there wouldn't be enough room in the case to compete with either Varget or H4895.

What is the COAL with the 150BD that you need to jam the bullet in the lands? What action are you using now?

 

[SuperBruce]

What is the COAL with the 150BD that you need to jam the bullet in the lands? What action are you using now?

I measured a max COAL of 2.950" so I'm jumping roughly 0.140". The rifle is a Bergara Ridge.