Finer Points of Reloading

[thwatson2]

I believe the big question is: how big, how far and how much do you want to go. I load different ways for different application. And I do agree a chrono is a must for all loads…My hunting rounds usually under 300 yards get about the same treatment you are now doing. this is only rounds I neck size, I don't clean flash holes every time and I only trim every couple shots. But pretty much what you are doing.
My long range rounds get cleaned,annealed, trimmed, full length sized and babied. I use a hornady comparator to check concentricity , I bump shoulder(rifle specific) by overcamming the press, I use rcbs competition bullet seater with window, and I crimp with a separate die. My black powder and long range 45-70 and 45-110 get little or no sizing, wet tumbling, the bullets are literally seated by hand and lightly crimped. They are annealed every shot and culling of brass often. So big question is what you doing with the round.

 

[Rosebud]

One of the guys I load for brought me some 270 win brass and117 hammers to load , He watched me resize and toss into the tumbler. I asked why he didn't start loading. He said I'm70 years old, I can't learn that. I asked him if he could bake a pan of brownies following the instructions on the box, he said sure. I said then you can reload rifle ammo, pistol is even easier. Money is not a problem for him. Told him read the manual, you can load ammo the very first day better than you can get factory ammo. Follow the cook book and then add other ingredients as you become a better cook. Mostly it's having the proper equipment and follow the book to begin with. Don't over think this. It can be as hard as you make it. Want to load stuff to hunt deer under 3 or 4 hundred yards is just making brownies.

 

[Jud96]

Another thing that has helped me tremendously, is the Lyman Xpress case trimmer. It has sped up case trimming about 10x faster than my previous methods. It has also made it way less of a pain to do. You can pick these up for around $130-150 and it's well worth the cost. I'm not sure what you use to throw powder charges, but a Lee Perfect Powder measure can be had for $30 and is the best powder measure for the money. I used it to throw charges then trickle up on a digital scale. I have an RCBS Chargemaster now, but the Lee powder measure and a beam scale or digital scale is the best thing before getting into an automated powder dispenser.

 

[Hotrod617]

Whatever happened to fire forming if ammo is being used in only one rifle?

 

[CasperTheMedic]

I would say I'm a fairly novice reloader. Been doing it for a couple years now strictly for hunting loads and recreational target shooting. Last night I was pulling some bullets from some loads I had worked up that got "lost" in a move but recently found and I have since changed brass brands. I noticed that some of the bullets pulled much easier than others so that got me thinking are there more advanced things I should be doing for consistency and brass life? I've never had any issues so to speak with my handloads but always looking to improve.Here is my typical process.

1. Tumble & Clean
2. Full Length Resize
3. Trim Necks
4. Debur Inside/Outside Necks
5. Uniform Flash Hole
6. Clean Primer Pocket
7. Seat Primers
8. Throw, Weigh, & Pour Charge
9. Seat Bullet

I'm using a single stage RCBS press with Hornady Custom Grade Dies for my 6.5CM and 300WM. Using RCBS Competition Grade Dies for my 7mm RM. Lapua brass on the 6.5CM and ADG brass on the 300WM and 7mm RM. Berger VLD and Hornady ELD-X bullets.

I set my dies up following manufacturer recommendations.

As I've been researching and reading online I have a few questions.

1. Neck sizing only, is that better than FL sizing?
2. Bumping the shoulder back .002"? Does the FL die do that or is that an additional step?
3. Neck tension, how do I make that more consistent?
4. Any other recommendations?

Thanks in advance.

Here's what I do for all my precision rounds (223 & 338). YMMV or you may want to add/remove steps

01 - decap using a Mighty Armoury decapper.
02 - wet tumble with stainless pins. 15-20min using hot water, dish soap & citric acid powder.)
03- dry in an old multi level dehydrator on highest setting.
04- Anneal
05 - lube cases
06 - FULL length resize with decapping and sizing pin removed. (Many ELR shooters use this and achieve extreme levels of accuracy at extreme ranges. So, if they have managed to perfect the wheel, why change it,)
07 - Neck tension using a mandrel to give 1.5 thousandths tension on your preferred bullet. (I'm using a 21st Century system.)
08 - remove case lube / not (I'm sticking to not so far)
09 - Case trim to length, chamfer & deburr. (Primer pocket uniform & flash hole deburr (only ever needed once for the brass life.))
10 - dry neck lube using graphite mixed into a small jar of small lead shot. (dip and twist. Supposedly this helps seating and release of the bullet when firing) (currently NOT doing this)
11 - Prime as per your needs, preferences.
12 - powder charge. (I'm measuring bulk charge by a manual powder throw, then onto a digital scale and I add balls/flakes/extruded cylinders of powder to get my load to 00.0gr (looking into a scale that will give 00.00gr, not sure if this will decrease my overall extreme spread and Std Deviation. It should. Theoretically.)
13 - Seat bullet to depth. (I'm working to 0.000x inchs of depth variance. Using calipers and measuring at the ogive.)
14 - crimp as / if needed for your specific rounds.

All this is done on a single stage RCBS press using Hornady quick change bushings. So, everything is set once. Makes it easier / quicker to load.

Little long, hope it helps you.

My results are as follows (10 rounds over the chrono)
338LM - 362 yard zero.
Avg. measured speed - 2855.8fps
Extreme spread - 14fps
SD - 6.53
Group size (5 rounds) - 1.8" (0.48 MOA)

 

[chav0_12]

That's a bit of money you're talking about there. Bushing dies, headspace gauge, annealing machine, neck turning, mandrels. Just getting bushing dies for 3 rifles can be expensive, I like Redding dies.

 

[Backwoods towny]

Many times I've on the verge of getting into reloading also but this thread has once again talked me out of it. So many guys...so many opinions. I put this subject up there with the best way to process a deer and which rifle caliber is the "best." So reloading will have to wait until after I retire when I might have the time to learn the secret sauce to all this mumbo-jumbo.

You can start now. Get reloading books and read,watch for deals on equipment. The sooner you familiarize with what you need and figure out how your going to be doing your process (this may change as you learn) it will only ease your concerns. Start your library now. Read. Read. Learn ,then when your ready for reloading,you'll be ahead and ready.
This site is a non stop learning experience for me. Gather info,learn. Reload= happiness.

 

[7mmshooter#1]

I'll keep it simple as the target competition folks taught me 2 things that I translated into hunting rifles:

- Lee Neck Size Collet Die in combination with a Redding body die or your FL die that you have
- Bullet comparator to ensure the distance from bullet to rifling(lands) is consistent

These 2 items are the add-ons or replacement to what you are doing now. Not all but for many of you rifles I've been able to tweak groups down a bit.

 

[Mark37082]

I have come to really appreciate this forum. The amount of insight provided is top notch. Reloading can get as complex and involved as you want it. If you are competing or ringing steel at over 1000 yards, it can be a worthwhile effort to attempt to wring out the finest precision from each and every cartridge produced. I've followed the basics and read several manuals and heed all warnings. This allows me to put 3 - 5 shots in one ragged hole. It's definitely not for the faint of wallet or the fly by the seat of pants type of person. I may be a little nuts but there is something really satisfying about shooting accurately with ammo you made.

 

[Jud96]

Annealing is expensive to get into. I don't do it, I never have. I plan to in the future. The problem is, the top level reloaders have said if you aren't using an AMP you're not getting consistent results every time. So I haven't annealed ever. I still get consistency. I may not be shooting 1/4 MOA all the time, but I haven't had a problem keeping my rifles around 1/2 MOA consistently. I would recommend keeping track of your number of firings to keep the brass all on the same level.

Another thing to note, I use standard dies. Either Hornady or Redding. I don't use bushing dies. The biggest reason is the cost to get into them, and the only thing you're gaining is less work on the case necks before mandrel expanding. Some bushing die sets can be $200+. That can get expensive fast for anybody depending on the amount of cartridges you load for.

Agian, the rabbit hole is endless. It can be overwhelming for new reloaders or experienced reloaders such as myself. You can spend $500 on a reloading setup or $5000. It's really never ending and there's constantly new experiments and new techniques coming to light. Like I said before, upgrade a few things and grow your equipment and processes as you progress and outgrow them. You don't want to buy 4 different pieces of equipment that do the same thing but progressively get better, you want to start with what you have and then buy the best whenever you can afford it and think you can take advantage of it. I'll repeat though, if you have the money, buying the top tier equipment is never a bad thing but you may never be able to take full advantage of it.

 

[Lee Goodwin]

You seem well prepped to make good ammo.
I full length resize. About a quarter turn back off the face of the shell holder. I guess there are different length chambers across the board on gun makers, same caliber. And, I guess that factory ammo accommodates this. But, fresh brass can stretch a lot.
So, back to reload your own. Where do you want to go with it.?
If you are hunting close and playing on paper with friends you got it going on. If you want to shoot well at 400 yards and beyond, you need to find a mentor. Find some old dude with hair growing out of his ears that has reloaded so much and so well it would be hard to get better than him. Emulate that old dude and pass it on down one day. Cheers.

 

[fisherman987]

Start with the caliber you will shoot the most and only buy components and equipment to reload for that caliber. Watch the Eric Cortina and/or F class John videos on the various reloading techniques and equipment reviews. After carefully researching your options, purchase the best quality equipment needed to perform the intended reloading steps for that one caliber. The idea behind this is to not waste money buying something you'll later regret and duplicating it across multiple calibers. Even then the odds you won't evolve to something else over time are small, but at least you'll limit it to just one caliber. You'll then start the learning process. The key then is to learn and perfect everything you can on that ONE cartridge. Learn how to properly measure everything. Learn how to make every cartridge consistently the same in every way. Only change ONE thing at a time and test the effects using a Labradar chronograph so the harmonics of your barrel aren't affected and pay close attention to the actual results on the target. Don't be afraid to do your initial testing at 100 yards so as to help eliminate weather and wind influencing your results on target. You can test later at longer distances. Once you have gained a deeper understanding of what you are doing, why you're doing it, and you're getting the results you want, then invest your time and money into other cartridges you're interested in. That way, you can spread experience and quality results to additional calibers instead of mistakes and regrets. Remember, only change ONE thing at a time so you truly know what that change accomplishes when you do your testing.

 

[nksmfamjp]

Wow, lots of advice. I'll try to stick to a couple specifics. First of all, understand that what you are doing can get you 75-85% of the way to a well developed load.

1. Neck sizing only, is that better than FL sizing?
2. Bumping the shoulder back .002"? Does the FL die do that or is that an additional step?
3. Neck tension, how do I make that more consistent?
4. Any other recommendations?

1) FL sizing is better because it sizes the neck, bumps the shoulder and sizes down the body diameter. The only way to improve is a custom fl die made based on cases fired in your chamber. Not necessary in a factory chamber.

2) remove all springs from your bolt. Try to chamber a fired case by pushing forward on the bolt. Does the handle drop freely when you let go. Likely not. Then size the case. Does it now. Likely yes. unscrew the die 1/4 turn and repeat with the next case. Repeat until the handle just barely drops to the bottom. Them measure with a headspace comparator tool.

https://www.hornady.com/headspace-bushings#!/

3) This is pretty fine detail. You can make 1/2" - 3/4" group without thinking about this at all. A bushing die can help as well as a custom mandrel. A Whidden FL die is about the best way into this.….or a custom honed Forster with the right expander. This, done in separate dies can add runout. Additionally, you really need to anneal to get much value out of this. With consistent annealing, the die settings don't change. Without, the die may need adjustment each cycle.

Annealeez – Annealeez

annealeez.com

4) Focus first on FL die setup, consistently accurate powder charge, seating depth control and runout. Runout over 0.010" can really start to affect groups. If you don't believe that, the test is simple. Load 25 to 50 of the same thing. Sort into runout groups and shoot.

Concentricity Gauge with Wheel and Indicator

Uses industry standard concentricity indicator Measures bullet runout, neck, body case mouth and inside neck concentricity Accommodates cartridges up to .50bmg Adjustable case stop Wheel eliminates error, holds case on roller bearings ensuring accurate measurement Deviations in...

21stcenturyinnovation.com

5. Uniform Flash Hole

I would buy good brass like Lapua or Peterson. That will save you a lot of effort. Seriously. Neither need neck turning generally to be perfect. Neither need primer pocket work, except maybe a light cleaning.

 

[RABAZ]

I would say I'm a fairly novice reloader. Been doing it for a couple years now strictly for hunting loads and recreational target shooting. Last night I was pulling some bullets from some loads I had worked up that got "lost" in a move but recently found and I have since changed brass brands. I noticed that some of the bullets pulled much easier than others so that got me thinking are there more advanced things I should be doing for consistency and brass life? I've never had any issues so to speak with my handloads but always looking to improve.Here is my typical process.

1. Tumble & Clean
2. Full Length Resize
3. Trim Necks
4. Debur Inside/Outside Necks
5. Uniform Flash Hole
6. Clean Primer Pocket
7. Seat Primers
8. Throw, Weigh, & Pour Charge
9. Seat Bullet

I'm using a single stage RCBS press with Hornady Custom Grade Dies for my 6.5CM and 300WM. Using RCBS Competition Grade Dies for my 7mm RM. Lapua brass on the 6.5CM and ADG brass on the 300WM and 7mm RM. Berger VLD and Hornady ELD-X bullets.

I set my dies up following manufacturer recommendations.

As I've been researching and reading online I have a few questions.

1. Neck sizing only, is that better than FL sizing?
2. Bumping the shoulder back .002"? Does the FL die do that or is that an additional step?
3. Neck tension, how do I make that more consistent?
4. Any other recommendations?

Thanks in advance.

1. Highly recommend getting Glen Zediker's book, "Hand loading for Competition" - takes a lot of the mystery out.
2. Agree don't neck size
3. Neck tension - set crimp to reduce neck ID by .003 - .004 That's enough.
4. Turn necks to get good concentricity.
5. Agree - anneal every 3x.
6. De-burr primer hole inside case - some are punched, and leave burrs. Can lead to inconsistent powder ignition.