Exercise for arthritic knees?

Discussion in 'Physical Training For Mountain Hunting And Backpac' started by Len Backus, Apr 17, 2008.

  1. RMulhern

    RMulhern Well-Known Member

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    Len

    I take 3 Tylenol 650 Mg. Arthritic tablets every day! I'm 76 and without it....I don't believe I could walk! I move fairly good.
     
  2. Len Backus

    Len Backus Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks for the Tylenol suggestion.

    Boy, I started this thread 8.4 years ago...when I had knee problems.

    Things have changed for me and my knees.

    So far this summer I have backpacked 110 miles in the mountains.

    This Wednesday I am heading back out to Wyoming. I'll be backpacking solo for 33 miles over 3 days in the Wind River Mountains.

    I will say that the most recent idea was to start using trekking poles. I've done it on a 30 mile and a 25 mile trip so far.

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/for...acking-trips-teton-crest-trail-2016-a-174784/
     
  3. RMulhern

    RMulhern Well-Known Member

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    My hat's off to ya! Stay clear of the bears!!
     
  4. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    My brother (63) is going to get both knees operated on soon by an outfit called Regenexx. basically get his stem cells from the hip, make a paste with his cartilage and spread it on the areas needed. he is bone on bone and trying to avoid replacement. there are other similar options now that are getting many good reviews. i'll post his results when we have some.
    for what it's worth...cartilage doesn't wear down from use, as in wear and tear. the problem is chronic inflammation, which most people have. our bodies are constantly regenerating cartilage, it's just that most people are loosing it faster than regrowing it.
     
  5. marioq

    marioq Well-Known Member

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    Actually, cartilage does not regenerate. Hyaline cartilage is what articular cartilage is made of in the joint. When there is damage to the joint, fibrocartilage takes its place. The wear of the cartilage does happen overtime but I agree that mainly the culprit is the inflamatory response from the body. The stem cells are a new and very interesting theory. The problem is finding a comparable standard patient to see if it really works. We are also doing PRP (platelet rich plasma) injections. This, again is new and developing. A lot of our info comes from veternarians and horses. The theory is sound, just not proven yet.

    The problem is bone on bone is exactly the problem. Putting stem cells and a paste on the bone does not contain the cells and they really can not regrow and attach to anything. It is a good idea but again, not approved and expensive.....

    a good knee replacement will work well but it depends on the individual and the therapy afterwords. If you are able to move and still climb hills, do not seek a replacement. if you can't walk and can't do what you want to do, consider at least having the conversation......

    Good luck and good hunting!@!!!!


    Mario
     
  6. 17Tactical

    17Tactical Well-Known Member

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    I have had surgery on my right knee twice, one 25 years ago and the second 18 years ago and now I have arthritis in it. Over the years what has worked best for me is light weight lifting for my legs.
    Specifically leg extensions with light weight and high repetitions. Say, 40-60 pounds, 4 sets of 20 reps.
    This does help with the arthritis and stiffness. The first few reps are always a little rough but my knee gets more flexible with every set. If I do this 3 times or more a week it helps with the flexibility and pain.
     
  7. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    Mario said, Actually, cartilage does not regenerate.

    this is just not true, it does regenerate even without stem cells. i asked my brother to find if this was true or not from his doctor who has 15 years experience doing stem cell operations. whatever the stem cells are put on will regenerate into the same thing. if they are on undamaged cartilage, that is what will regenerate. if they go on scar tissue type cartilage, that is what will regenerate. and yes, they can put the stem cells exactly where they need to go, it's not a new thing he's been doing it for 15 years. and, it's not expensive at all. this operation costs about 5k. a knee replacement is 4 or 5 times that. it's been about 3 months since my brother had his operation on just one knee. it took a couple months, which is what he was told, and then he started seeing improvement. he's riding a bike and walking again with much less pain. he is getting the other knee done soon. they only did one knee because not enough stem cells were extracted to do both knees. PRP was also part of the process.
     
  8. JohnMill

    JohnMill Well-Known Member

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    Actually had a knee op. Started out to be scoped but then opened with an incision. had a side to side fishtail tear. Dr said it would have taken a week to get it all out through arthroscopic device. it took months to regenerate the cartilage to 3/4 to 7/8 of original thickness. A total of 7 months from operation to return to work. Don't know where the story about cartilage (cushion stuff between bones) not regen comes from but suspect they are talking about the smooth covering over the end of the bone. that part gets cuts thru it that don't close. I do not recall the name but it ain't cartilage. Get out your Gray's and look it up
     
  9. marioq

    marioq Well-Known Member

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    Yes I did say that and yes that is the truth. Articular cartilage which is type two collagen does not regenerate. You are able to scar with something called fibrocartilage (scar) which is not the same. There is a procedure called MACI, whereby the patients Cartilage is harvested with a small piece of subchondral bone. This is sent to a company who breaks down the cartilage and amplifies the cells on to a fibrinous tissue that is re-implanted into the host knee. A fibrin glue is then used in order to attach it to the host bone and then over the next couple months following a strict protocol, Cartilage is regrown. There are of course strict guidelines to this procedure requiring a certain age, non-smoker, nondiabetic, it is encouraged to have a stable Knee meaning no ligamentous injury.

    Stem cells therapy is a different concept that can work if things are set up correct. As stated, stem cells can become anything. That means they are Pluripotent. Based on their environment and contact, they will differentiate into a cell line they are told to based on environment. Will this work in the knee????
    Theoretically yes. My statement was simply stating that Cartilage doesn't regrow

    If u implant cells or transplant cells, that is not regrowing that is transplantation.

    The Internet is full of gimmicks and sales pitches to try and get people to buy things. But it's also full of truth and knowledge. Search for cartilage regrowth and regeneration search pub med and see if there are any Peer review articles or articles out of the Journal of bone and joint surgery or from the American Academy of orthopedic surgeons and see if there are any published reports. That will be truth at least as it stands at this current day and age. It does not mean that we are getting closer, it just means that it's not here yet

    There are many inspiring possibilities. However looking at this simple economics if you pay $5000 cash that insurance does not pay and that person or that company gets $5000 and there's no negotiation and there's no rights of a patient to recoup any losses there's also no guarantees and there's no data to support the outcomes which is why the insurance companies and the FDA do not approve it. Everybody is chasing the goblet of youth. Unfortunately it just has not come to pass

    Good luck and keep moving.
     
  10. nerka83

    nerka83 Member

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    Marioq covers it pretty well. My own experience is that of joint replacement. If one chooses this route, be sure to request a chamfered prosthesis or you will not be able to comfortably kneel down on that knee. I'm moving well and excercise for an hour, daily. I'm also 86 so I don't move as fast as I used to, but am able to handle most terrain with relative ease. The surgery itself is fast, about an hour. The recovery is a whole other story. It can be a tooth grinder. One has to hang in there and keep moving, it works.
     
  11. JohnMill

    JohnMill Well-Known Member

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    Interesting! I am now contemplating a knee replacement. the Dr may tell me I weigh way too much for it. Just another obstacle. Best advice on this thread is lose weight and move. I have at least 1/2 a dz friends that have had knee replacements. Seems like a day in the park.
    Hey Mulhern, didn't know you was here. I use you as a source whenever I find you.
     
  12. nerka83

    nerka83 Member

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    Weight is an important factor in a good recovery. Lose as much as you can prior to replacement. I worked out daily for four months prior to surgery to build up the quads etc. Made a big difference.
     
  13. Len Backus

    Len Backus Administrator Staff Member

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    Fabulous discussion....thanks guys.
     
  14. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    Check out regenexx.com before you get those knees chopped!