Exercise for arthritic knees?

Discussion in 'Physical Training For Mountain Hunting And Backpac' started by Len Backus, Apr 17, 2008.

  1. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Well-Known Member

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    No kind of surgery is a day in the park. Especially with age and/or extra weight being a factor. Knee surgery is one of the most often botched up surgeries you can ask for. I have a high school friend age 69, who has been wheel chair bound for 18 months following four failed attempts to fix his knee. First surgery got a bacterial infection embedded in the plastic knee parts and all of that had to be removed and replaced with new plastic which got infected and then they tried stainless, but during recovery at home he fell and broke his femur and destroyed the knee. Now his knee no longer bends and is not weight bearing. So they are giving him the choice of amputation or permanent lock.

    I have had three abdominal surgeries and one thoracic surgery in the last 18 months and three visits to the ER. As a result my upper body strength is about 30 percent of what it was before all of this started. I can no longer draw my 70# bow and it will be 2018 hunting season before my left shoulder is strong enough to do so. Rehab is slow at this age because the body heals slowly.
     
  2. Len Backus

    Len Backus Administrator Staff Member

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    Jim, thank goodness that you are a tough, determined individual.

    I have confidence in your recovery.
     
  3. johnlittletree

    johnlittletree Member

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    Well with your medical professional approval weight bearing exercise through a range we can handle combined with isometrics. Quality over quantity. Slow is always safer than fast for joints. The problem with body weight exercises for lower body is one of the resistance being so small one has to do hundreds of repetitions which can be hard on an already damaged or worn out joint. Isometrics are the safest route becasue with no movement comes almost no risk of further damage to the joint. I have had 3 knee and ankle surgeries on my right leg. So for a damaged joint water aerobics or exercise bike or circuit training with light weights with continuous movement are great idea. If walking does not bother you than walking can be great. Anything you can do is better than doing nothing at all. Humans have 4 limbs so not all cardio has to be done with just the legs. Cross Contry Skiers have killer VO2 max becasue they are driving up and down hard with their arms as well. It is not enough to just cary some weights in your hands while walking that is functionally worthless you have to treat your arms like another set of legs and think of them as running upside really driving your hands and arms up and then driving them down! Dr. Leonard Schwartz inventor of Heavy Hands wrote a good book on the topic. The first edition is written at a level for a person studying for their Masters Degree in Human Performance Physiology but the reprints are dumbed down and easy for anyone to understand. I have never seen anyone use the Heavy Hands weights properly because no one reads the book. Kettlebells allow you to do a lot of work in a short period of time they can be anaerobic or aerobic depending on how you use them. If I was going to give someone recommendations to be fitter and stronger than 90% of the Earths Population with out insane amounts of training time invested my must read list for the average Joe would be John e. Petersons "Pushing Yourself to Power" BWE Body Weight Training, Isometric Revolution Isometrics and Quasi Isometrics both available from Bronze Bow Publishing at good prices other places have insane prices on these as if they no longer in production but they are. The final book would be Heavy Hands by Dr. Leonard Schwartz. For those that can still run and do hi impact cardio running intervals like say sprinting from one power pole to another than walking or jogging to the next pole and repeat. Going on classic Army Style Road Marches or Rucking where you are basicly race walking for 10-25 miles with or with out a ruck sack on your back! If you are on a tight budget and need one tool to do it all prob. a cheap kettlebell from Walmart 35lbs. and Coach Scott Sonnon's Offical Kettlebell Fondations DVD Series off Ebay. It is a 3DVD set and it is easily as much material as most other companies would put into 6-8 DVD at much higher prices. 29 Joint Mobility Drills and Warm-Up, 12 Kettlebell Techniques, 24 Cool Down Techniques. If you are too beat up for any of this and need to take a step back and attempt to heal before you can attempt to move ahead take a look at Ageless Mobility by Coach Scott Sonnon this is really aimed at anyone that has accumulated a lot of orthopedic problems that have limited your range of motion and your joint mobility. God Bless!
     
  4. nerka83

    nerka83 Member

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    Scrmbir 1982 posted in May of 2015 and states it right. I'm 87 in a month and am still getting around pretty well, all be it slower. One day at time and remember Long Slow Distance really works. I don't take any supplements.
    Have pain, but deal with it.
     
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  5. johnlittletree

    johnlittletree Member

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    Long slow distance can work well depending on what you want to do. It is not at all efficient but if you have badly damaged joints like me long slow distance is all I can do with my right leg after 3 surgeries on the ankle and the knee. There are no good tools and bad tools it just depends on what your goal is. It is almost as stupid as someone saying a hammer is a better tool than a screwdriver. Well unless you define "better" and at "What" the answer might be ignorant nonsense or perfectly accurate.

    Generally, a simple answer is for fools, the ignorant or those too busy to learn and think for themselves. Life is too short to waste time doing anything halfway or partly wrong. One of the problems with our country is that people love to consume the overly simplified things that out politicians and expert tell them about just about everything. If you attempt to explain things in detail correctly their eye's glaze over and turn off.

    Long slow cardio, unfortunately, builds efficiency and increases aerobic enzymes but it does absolutely nothing for cardio capacity. In fact, long slow cardio works best by tearing down tissues and getting rid of them because excess muscle and organ mass hurts efficiency. In fact in dumbed down parlance we know know that endurance is not one thing but in crudest terms is 3 different things and 2 different energy systems at work and each form of endurance require a different form of training and has little carry over from one to the other so no single system of training will fully develop it.

    World class athletes and coaches have known this for many decades it has taken researchers a long time to catch up and find a way to explain what top coaches and athletes have known.

    Doctor Cooper consider the father of modern aerobic was a liar and a fraud. The idea's he put forward were never backed up by the results of his actual research, in fact, his own research went 100% against what he recommended. In fact, his aerobics theory was based on research done of Union Long SHoreman that unloaded ships on the Docks which was not at all reflective of long slow cardio.

    Just like 50 years ago they knew cholesterol from your diet had nothing to do with heart disease. All the fake fats and low-fat foods they came up with where 1000X worse than what Americans had been eating before. No matter what the research actually said the public ate it up and doctors prescribed and are still prescribing drugs to lower cholesterol. You can either listen to tot he expert and be clueless or educate yourself. The truth is always out there.

    That is why I seldom join groups like this or answer questions. Too many people confuse opinions with facts. Most people do not want the truth they want simple. When it comes to the human body and training for specific traits there really are no secrets left unlike most of the bodys functions when it comes to increasing speed, endurance, strength, jumping, muscle mass it has all been figured out long ago but it is anything but simple!
     
  6. Varmint Hunter

    Varmint Hunter Well-Known Member

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    I did not read the 6 pages posted so excuse me if my post seems redundant to others.
    I have had 3 knee surgeries. Running any more is out of the question. I was walking quit a bit but that had a cumulative negative impact which caused swelling and pain.
    I started cycling again after a few years of minimum exercise. Oddly enough, cycling does not bother my knees at all. Now I ride 23 miles in the morning, several days a week. I ride hard to maximize the cardio benefit. Leg and knee strength is up and pain is down.
    It's just amazing how everything hurt my knees EXCEPT cycling.
     
  7. Phoeniceltic

    Phoeniceltic Active Member

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    I skipped over the last few pages... I had to train just to get my body through it's last year of Military Service as my Knees had just gotten too bad. I was much Younger then and really only had a few years of Football wear, which in my case was too much. I cracked open a book one day in the Library about "Runners Knee". Some folks have to just do exercises to try and pull the Knew Cap back straight. In essence what I did was ride an exercise bike in the Gym with my Toes pointed inwards. I also did side to side exercises, very carefully I might add, to further strengthen muscles to help pull my kneecaps straight. This probably won't help your case in particular but it might help others. It sounds crazy, but I think most of us have Knee problems from walking too soon as toddlers. Parents push kids to walk sooner than is needed to keep from being embarrassed or whatever.
     
  8. Idaho Lefty

    Idaho Lefty Well-Known Member

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    Len, I am 71 y/o and a type 2 Diabetic, fortunately with, "good" Knee's but, here's something, I luckily ran into, when my Doctor said he wanted me to try the KETO diet to get my A1C and Blood Sugar, down. I went on the Keto Diet and about 2-3 weeks later, I noticed that, my Arthritis PAIN, in my Hands and Neck (Neck pain, from a rear end collision by a drunk lady, years, ago) almost entirely went,.. AWAY ! Ask your Doctor if he thinks, it "may" help you ! My Blood Sugar went down 40-50 points, I LOST 13 Pounds ( less weight, to drag up the Hill) and have almost NO, arthritic,.. pain ! I "feel" like I'm 50 again, on this Diet ! Might be worth looking into, good luck !
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018
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  9. Idaho Lefty

    Idaho Lefty Well-Known Member

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    The Keto Diet, REMOVES ALL, the White Flour, processed Wheat, Potato's, bad Starches, Milk, sugar, etc. and that, supposedly allows, the body to repair, the amount of, Tissue/ Joint "swelling" that, causes, the Pain! Seems to "work" for me ! Basically, IF you can, Kill it ( Meat), grow it (Garden Veg's), or catch it ( Fish),.. IT'S "GOOD" for us !! AKA,.. God's original,.. plan !
     
  10. dfanonymous

    dfanonymous Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn’t concentrate on any pills, some help, but a lot of the supplements are more of a gimmick and cost more than they give. I will say this though, don’t stop moving..I mean that in a don’t be lethargic in life kinda way. It’s weird how the mind affects the body, but around the time people usually decide to take it easy and not work their bodies is when all the physical conditions get worst. Stay active as much as you can, even if it means going slower.
     
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  11. 17Tactical

    17Tactical Well-Known Member

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    Staying active has been the key for me since I had minor scoped surgery 16 years ago. I have stayed active over the years, (walked my a mile in the Colorado mountains chasing elk. But taking all things into consideration (age, activity, body condition, etc), things do just wear out. I can bare witness to that because I had the same knee replaced 5 weeks ago. I lived with the increasing pain for the past 5 years until I could not walk across the yard any longer without a brace on. I decided to get it checked out. Diagnoses was arthritis and deteriorated meniscus. So, the saying of my therapist is "Motion is Lotion" for the knee. I can tell you now that that statement is true. I am one of the fortunate ones. At 1 week after the replacement I had full range of movement. Most folks at the therapist don't have full range of motion until 12 to 16 weeks of therapy. My doctor has said to stay away from high impact activities, like running so I can get the maximum life out of the knee appliance. He said weight lifting is okay. I really miss my morning runs, but now I will be walking instead of running.
     
  12. Idaho Lefty

    Idaho Lefty Well-Known Member

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    We American's, EAT,.."krap" CHECK, the Keto Diet !!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Krap = PROCESSED Food ! And too much, Wheat, Potato's, Starch, etc. !
    Any Doctors, reading THIS post ????????????
     
  13. Wlfdg

    Wlfdg Well-Known Member

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    FWIW - I have a client (63) who’s knees have suffered the effects decades of long distance running and training for countless marathons.
    A little over 3yrs ago I started training him.
    For his lower body we focused on kettlebell swings, sled drags and Prowler pushes.
    After 3 months of that regiment we added in trap bar deadlift in place of the sled drags.
    About 2 months later we exchanged the Prowler for suspension strap assisted squats. Those eventually evolved into reverse lunges which eventually evolved into unassisted reverse lunges, then weighted reverse lunges and eventually into an exercise called a Hatfield squat
    All the while we continued adding weight to the trap bar deadlift
    Just last week my client did a 300# Hatfield squat for a single after 18 months of training them.
    He started elk hunting with his sons again last year. This year he put in for a few tags. He’s really enthusiastic about his strength and recovered physical abilities.
    With the right progressions strength and ability can be recovered
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018