Does "anyone" ever take Sectional Density into consideration!!

[FURMAN]

I will be the first to admit I really do not belong in a discussion about any gear that will be used at a max distance of 300 yards because I fully believe any of the hunting bullets of the appropriate weight on the shelf at walmart shot from a cheap rifle in the cabinet at walmart will be more than sufficient to kill anything under 300 yards. I just do not see the point of worrying about the minutia until you start stretching the distance to 500ish yards and farther.

 

[Alibiiv]

I think we all know what weight bullet for a given caliber is suitable for large or medium game, this is partly contstruction of the bullet, and partly weight, which for a caliber, goes hand in hand with SD. We don't think about it in terms of SD, but choosing a heavier bullet means you're gaining SD...just my take on it.

"I think we all know what weight bullet for a given caliber is suitable for large or medium game". I'd like to agree with you on this statement, however I am not too sure about it. I'm probably going to raise a lot of hair here, but......there are some postings in other threads where people are responding with how their high speed, small caliber is totally out shooting a medium medium speed, medium caliber gun; ie. 65. Creedmore vs 300WM. This pretty much is the reason that I opened this thread and for the posting.

 

[Alibiiv]

I think your question may have more value at 100 yards but this is a long range hunting forum. Provided the bullet is capable of good terminal performance bc rules. I suspect this thread will turn into another giant argument just like the 26 Nosler vs 300WM.

When I am building a rifle or buying one for that matter. I first consider the game I will take with it. I then consider the weight of bullet I intend to shoot then I consider how fast I want to drive it then I pick my cartridge. The overriding pieces of those decisions is energy/momentum at the max distance I intend to shoot, the BC, and necassary muzzle velocity to make it happen.

Exactly!!!!! Case in point!​

 

[Alibiiv]

I will be the first to admit I really do not belong in a discussion about any gear that will be used at a max distance of 300 yards because I fully believe any of the hunting bullets of the appropriate weight on the shelf at walmart shot from a cheap rifle in the cabinet at walmart will be more than sufficient to kill anything under 300 yards. I just do not see the point of worrying about the minutia until you start stretching the distance to 500ish yards and farther.

I don't consider this post to be "minutia", at least for some of us who don't shoot mountain to mountain. It's a valid question worth asking and looking for clarification.

 

[FURMAN]

"I think we all know what weight bullet for a given caliber is suitable for large or medium game". I'd like to agree with you on this statement, however I am not too sure about it. I'm probably going to raise a lot of hair here, but......there are some postings in other threads where people are responding with how their high speed, small caliber is totally out shooting a medium medium speed, medium caliber gun; ie. 65. Creedmore vs 300WM. This pretty much is the reason that I opened this thread and for the posting.

I am completely with you on this statement but you can't fix stupid. In my opinion we can argue physics, external ballistics, and terminal performance all day long. Some just won't get it unless they see it. I would guess some of those individuals don't actaully shoot many animals at distance. Maybe that is your driving point. I also can not for the life of me understand why they choose to dismiss field data from guys like Jeff Brozovich. Jeff takes more elk in a year than I will take in my lifetime and has stated repeatedly that the 215 from a 300 kills quicker than a 7 with 180s almost every time although they have **** near the same energy.

 

[FURMAN]

I don't consider this post to be "minutia", at least for some of us who don't shoot mountain to mountain. It's a valid question worth asking and looking for clarification.

Like I said I really don't belong in the short range discusion because I believe that a corelokt from a 270 will kill, for all intents and purposes, nearly identical to a 30-06 with a nosler partition.

 

[MagnumManiac]

There's one simple flaw in SD, it DOES NOT factor in:
#1 Bullet construction. Whether a bullet is cup and core, bonded, solid copper or core-lokt.
#2 Bullet type.
Spitzer, semi spitzer, plastic tipped, Solid copper, VLD or roundnose.
Flat meplats, round nosed or tipped all make a difference to expansion.

Everybody knows certain bullet types penetrate far better than others, even though sectional density is the same.
Years ago, when I used the Speer Hot Cor .338" 275gr Semi Spitzer in my 338 on water buff, bears and plains game, no other bullet penetrated like it. Even 300gr RN .375" from my 375H&H didn't penetrate as well or as far.
SD can be an invaluable tool choosing a particular bullet weight per caliber, but bullet TYPE should take precedence.

There's far more to bullet performance than just SD alone these days.

Cheers.

 

[turkn8r1]

Sectional density and the ability to cause acceptable damage for a clean ethical kill are 2 totally different things at any range regardless of caliber ( for the most part ). A target bullet with an exceptional BC and coefficient will kill paper and knock paint off steel at long or close ranges however the may or may not humanely dispatch a game animal at those same ranges. Projectile design I.E. materials used, hydrolic actions. weight retention, energy transfer and the range of speeds ( high end and low end ) at which all this will take place in a sufficient manner are the numbers that matter in this situation. This is just my opinion and is only given to try and add something to this discussion. I think that is really what we are talking about. I have personally witnessed high BC/sectional density bullets explode on impact inside 400 yards at hyper speeds. I have also seen that same bullet perform as advertised at lower speeds or in the same rifle at longer distances when the speed has slowed down sufficiently for the bullet to hold together. I have also witnessed the same with a different design that at closer ranges at hyper velocities fly through like an fmj and only provide expected performance when they slow down enough. When selecting a bullet I always try to determine first what the intended purpose of the bullet is for my application. If it is for hunting I have to take into account which rifle it will be used in. ( my go to rifle is a 30-378 wby mag ). I also hunt with several other rifles in different calibers. If it is a barrel burner which bullet characteristics will give me best performance throughout any range I may shoot it. Sometimes bc and sectional density have nothing to do with the decision. I do try to use the highest bc available that meets that criteria. Sometimes it requires heavier bullets than I prefer but that can all be accounted for. Sorry for the long post and it is not all inclusive but I think it applies here.

 

[MagnumManiac]

This myth needs to be dispelled. Bullets DO NOT kill from energy transfer, they DO kill by destroying tissue needed for life to continue.
A bullet, even those of large caliber, actually impart so little energy in such a short space of time, that it's practically over before it even started.
Yes, you can SEE the 'energy' as it ripples through muscle, skin or ballistic gel, BUT this is not what kills. Even a brain shot that is slightly off may not kill, let alone drop a large animal.

I still don't understand how people still believe a bullet that MAY impart as much energy as a baseball at 100mph is what kills an animal. An automobile that has many thousands more lbs/ft of energy does NOT always kill what it hits, does it?!

Cheers.

 

[elkaholic]

This myth needs to be dispelled. Bullets DO NOT kill from energy transfer, they DO kill by destroying tissue needed for life to continue.
A bullet, even those of large caliber, actually impart so little energy in such a short space of time, that it's practically over before it even started.
Yes, you can SEE the 'energy' as it ripples through muscle, skin or ballistic gel, BUT this is not what kills. Even a brain shot that is slightly off may not kill, let alone drop a large animal.

I still don't understand how people still believe a bullet that MAY impart as much energy as a baseball at 100mph is what kills an animal. An automobile that has many thousands more lbs/ft of energy does NOT always kill what it hits, does it?!

Cheers.

There I go agreeing with you again

 

[257Tony]

I've always used SD when comparing bullets thar are designed to penetrate. For example, accubond vs accubond, partition vs partition, etc. Using SD to compare fragmenting vlds just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[User4302021]

Like I said I really don't belong in the short range discusion because I believe that a corelokt from a 270 will kill, for all intents and purposes, nearly identical to a 30-06 with a nosler partition.

These will make it to 500.

 

[Don A Parsons]

SD above .250 and higher and your good to go.

That's not saying that lower SD won't perform either.

Buy gun and go hunting stuff,,, 200 plus years proves it can be done.

 

[FURMAN]

SD above .250 and higher and your good to go.

That's not saying that lower SD won't perform either.

Buy gun and go hunting stuff,,, 200 plus years proves it can be done.

Good to go for what? You just proved why SD can NOT be used for comparing hunting bullets. Take the Woodleigh bullet I gave as an example early. It meets your self proclaimed good to go number by far. Great at 100 yards for the right animal but would suck bad for a long range bullet. It has been stated numerous times in this thread SD is worthless comparing bullets.