Cleaning Carbon from Barrel

I was turned on to Bore Tech by a couple of smiths I know well. I started using their products and pretty much done searching or testing any thing else. This stuff flat does a fantastic job with minimal BS. I hate shooting paper and I hate cleaning guns. So the least amount of time I have to spend cleaning a nasty barrel the better.

To answer the question about carbon: the biggest issue you can see with carbon is a carbon ring. That can and does degrade the performance of the rifle. It took me a while but settled on cleaning out carbon 50-100 rounds. I rarely clean copper but that is more dependent on the condition of the bore. A properly lapped custom barrel rarely has copper fouling or build up. So the issue is usually back to carbon. Additionally, if you leave a fouled barrel sit for several weeks often you will see the carbon turn grey and feel chalky. That is basically the oxidization of the carbon. I found that leaving a barrel sit for extended period meant the first round was out of the group by accuracy and FPS due to this oxidized carbon. A quick dry patch or bore snake the barrel before hitting the field remedied this issue in every test I conducted.
First off, the point about running a snake down the barrel prior to firing after a period of downtime makes perfect sense. I have read a lot about a carbon ring but I have yet to identify in any of my rifles. I may not be looking in the correct location.
 
This sounds like a good barrel soak for days with a solvent that does NOT contain ammonia. Stand it vertical, plug muzzle with cork or similar plug in a plastic container for secondary containment. This is not a nylon brush bore but bronze all the way. I would soak at least 2-3 days. Then I would start cleaning. Maybe do multiple long term soaks and then cleaning. Let the solvent start the penetration through long long term soaking. This will not be cleaned quickly since it was accumulated over its lifespan so clean same way. I had a friend who abused a rifle and shot like crap. Couple weeks of multiple overnight soaks with Hoppes 9 plus rigorous cleaning brought it back to decent shooter.

I've been told that a product called Slip2000 is a good soak solvent for carbon ring removal.
 
First off, the point about running a snake down the barrel prior to firing after a period of downtime makes perfect sense. I have read a lot about a carbon ring but I have yet to identify in any of my rifles. I may not be looking in the correct location.
It's found in the first 4-6" of the bore where the most heat and pressure is evident. Basically hard baked. Not all easy to identify or remove. I discovered it early on due to seeing increased pressure on my brass and accuracy fall off a bit. Smith bore scoped it and said clean it you moron. Since then, I have my own bore scope and clean within 100. I am pretty good about running my snake a couple passes before hitting the mountain, if the rifle hadn't be fired for more than a week.
 
It is true that aftermarket barrels, with the right lapping, hardly build in copper.
Factory/other barrels will build copper, and there is nothing good about that.

As far as carbon, you may have noticed by now that the longer you leave carbon the more tenacious it gets.
The ultimate example of what carbon can do to a barrel is with moly buildup. I know moly is not carbon but it presents as the worst kind of carbon situation. That is, when it messes up results, and at the same time takes more damage to remove it(abrasive damage) than leaving it..

There is another path.
You can clean bores to white metal clean after every use -while it's super easy to do so.
Then dry prefoul the bore with a burnishing of WS2 (tungsten disulfide).
This is like a universal prefouling, you can store with it, and you can count on the first shot like any to follow.
 
This sounds like a good barrel soak for days with a solvent that does NOT contain ammonia. Stand it vertical, plug muzzle with cork or similar plug in a plastic container for secondary containment. This is not a nylon brush bore but bronze all the way. I would soak at least 2-3 days. Then I would start cleaning. Maybe do multiple long term soaks and then cleaning. Let the solvent start the penetration through long long term soaking. This will not be cleaned quickly since it was accumulated over its lifespan so clean same way. I had a friend who abused a rifle and shot like crap. Couple weeks of multiple overnight soaks with Hoppes 9 plus rigorous cleaning brought it back to decent shooter.
I use some modeling clay, like I use when bedding an action, to make a dam of sorts at the muzzle. Then put the barrel, bore down, in a plastic container, like a yogurt or sour cream container. Stand the barrel/rifle as vertical as possible and fill the barrel to the chamber with straight Simple Green. Let it soak for a day, bore brush and repeat. It's hard to imagine any carbon fouling remaining after the second time. It's the best method I've found, but I do NOT use ammonia based cleaners. They can cause pitting and introduce irreparable damage to your rifle. A lot of folks will chime in and say how it's never happened to them, and so on, but it's not hard to screw up your gear with ammonia.
 
To remove a carbon ring, I find scotch brite pads do the quickest job if soaked in CLR.
I spin them up and it takes a few minutes and leaves a nice cross hatch finish in the chamber.
I rinse with alcohol followed by Hoppe's to make sure the CLR is neutralised and then oil the bore lightly.

Cheers.
 
I just finished searching the site for products for cleaning the carbon out of a poorly maintained rifle. I was asked if I would mount a scope for a friend and when I was sighting it in it shot like a scatter gun. I brought it home and bore scoped the barrel and as another friend described it look like a tire that went flat for 25 miles .I have been cleaning it out and the question I have is how much carbon build up is acceptable?

The gun is a 1960's vintage Winchester. According to the owner it was his fathers gun and does not know if it was ever cleaned.

Another question, the barrel and lands look stepped in somewhat even increments for the full length of the barrel, any ideas.
If it is hard baked carbon, then nothing really work but IOSSO and J B paste. Temperature and pressure are two good elements in producing hard carbon on your barrel. Carbon cleaning compound mentioned above just remove dirt and residue. Those cleaning compound and brush will be no match to the hard carbon pressed hard and baked on your barrel. Soak and clean barrel from powder and residue with what ever you have and if copper is present use solvent intended for copper. Once copper are removed only the hardened carbon will remain, time for IOSSO or JB paste to do their job. If it doesn't work, check the throat and the crown. I hope yo don't need a new barrel. As to what fouling is acceptable, every barrel is unique, but your target paper will tell you for sure. Hope that helps.
 
I just finished searching the site for products for cleaning the carbon out of a poorly maintained rifle. I was asked if I would mount a scope for a friend and when I was sighting it in it shot like a scatter gun. I brought it home and bore scoped the barrel and as another friend described it look like a tire that went flat for 25 miles .I have been cleaning it out and the question I have is how much carbon build up is acceptable?

The gun is a 1960's vintage Winchester. According to the owner it was his fathers gun and does not know if it was ever cleaned.

Another question, the barrel and lands look stepped in somewhat even increments for the full length of the barrel, any ideas.
I have tested most of the cleaners and lubes over the last 2 years and spent a bunch of money doing it. Ive seen barrels recently so cartooned out that rifling was barely visible. These barrels were of foreign military rifles that a friend has. He complained of bad groups and said he cleaned it until clean patches came out using Hoppes. On a bet I won a few bucks telling him it wasn't clean. I scoped the bore and it was horrendous. Heavy copper on top of carbon. I'd have to say it was fired with undersized bullets for it to build up like that. So here is what I have found to be the best cleaners and CLP's. Bore Tech were good but for normal carbon removal, Flitz LIQUID polish is awesome and my go to cleaner. For really heavy stuff as mentioned above, KG2 bore polish is the best. I know JB is popular but it is a pain to get out and KG2 cleans out much easier. I wrap a patch around a nylon brush and soak with KG2 and go at it. KG2 cleaned my friends bore and rifling was visible when done. I follow up with Prolix CLP to clean out KG or Flitz and provide a dry film lube and rust preventative in the bore.
In the CLP category, Prolix and Adiga Armory CLP's are the best. Both are citrus based and clean well and I'd rate them equal. The difference here is Prolix leaves a dry lube and AA is a wet lube. I wish I had these during my military career. Ive cleaned M2, M60, M16, M4, Mk19, M203 so I have a bit of cleaning experience and the break free they issued us sucked. It just made an oily mess.
If you just want to get some copper out then Bore tech eliminator or Cu2 do an awesome job.
For powder fouling, anything will remove it but the really heavy, hard carbon in a bore can only be removed with an abrasive and elbow grease. JB and KG2 are non embedding and will NOT harm the bore. Flitz will NOT harm the bore.

I also cleaned an 03 bore recently that was the worst I ever saw. Nothing visible but carbon with straight copper streaks on it. I started with a 30 cal brush with flitz. This brush got loose so I went to a 338 brush which also got loose after 10 strokes and then went to a 35 cal brush. The 35 cal brush loosened slightly but stayed snug enough to finally find some metal. I ended up having to use KG2 which cleaned it enough to see a bore so pitted that no rifling existed at all. My friend is waiting on a new barrel to arrive. Worst barrel ever but it was cleaned except for the bottom of the pits.
 
Ever notice the best bores in the world, which barely copper foul, are NOT polished?
Never POLISH a bore.
J-B Bore Cleaning Compound = GOOD
J-B Bore Bright = BAD
Flitz = BAD

If you polish a bore you will ruin it until restoring best lapping. Copper fouling will go through the roof.
Fire-lapping might restore it, but it didn't work for me when I put myself in this position (with Flitz).
Had a friend who ruined his best shooting barrel with Bore Bright. He hadn't noticed there were two different J-Bs..
 
Ever notice the best bores in the world, which barely copper foul, are NOT polished?
Never POLISH a bore.
J-B Bore Cleaning Compound = GOOD
J-B Bore Bright = BAD
Flitz = BAD

If you polish a bore you will ruin it until restoring best lapping. Copper fouling will go through the roof.
Fire-lapping might restore it, but it didn't work for me when I put myself in this position (with Flitz).
Had a friend who ruined his best shooting barrel with Bore Bright. He hadn't noticed there were two different J-Bs..
Thanks for that bit of information!
 
Ever notice the best bores in the world, which barely copper foul, are NOT polished?
Never POLISH a bore.
J-B Bore Cleaning Compound = GOOD
J-B Bore Bright = BAD
Flitz = BAD

If you polish a bore you will ruin it until restoring best lapping. Copper fouling will go through the roof.
Fire-lapping might restore it, but it didn't work for me when I put myself in this position (with Flitz).
Had a friend who ruined his best shooting barrel with Bore Bright. He hadn't noticed there were two different J-Bs..
Mike, my bores were shiny as a mirror when I bought the barrels. They are still that way. They get only very minimal carbon fouling which is easily removed. Never had a carbon ring and very seldom a trace of copper from the Barnes copper bullets. Been cleaning this way for years and won't change a thing. The 6000 non embedding grit in flitz isn't even classified as an abrasive and does no damage. I have match barrels from shilen, hart, pacnor, Krieger, PBB and all are pristine.
I use the green liquid flitz, not the blue paste. Call and talk to flitz, I did before I used it.
 
No love for the old JB and Kroil on a VFG felt pellet combo?

As a random aside, I have an email from a manufacturer telling me to use a steel brush and Sweets in their barrel. I'll admit, it was very clean when I got done. Still haven't brought myself to shoot it again, in my head it still shoots like it did before and it's going to stay that way until proven otherwise.
 
I just finished searching the site for products for cleaning the carbon out of a poorly maintained rifle. I was asked if I would mount a scope for a friend and when I was sighting it in it shot like a scatter gun. I brought it home and bore scoped the barrel and as another friend described it look like a tire that went flat for 25 miles .I have been cleaning it out and the question I have is how much carbon build up is acceptable?

The gun is a 1960's vintage Winchester. According to the owner it was his fathers gun and does not know if it was ever cleaned.

Another question, the barrel and lands look stepped in somewhat even increments for the full length of the barrel, any ideas.
As far as getting the carbon out, Bore Tech carbon remover is the best I've found and I've tried just about everything. Roll up a soft foam earplug and put it in the muzzle to seal it off. Fill the barrel up to the chamber with bore tech carbon remover. Secure it vertically with the muzzle pointed down. Let it sit for five days. Drain it and push about 5 dry patches through followed by 5 patches wet with bore tech. Then 5 more dry patches. Repeat if necessary. The bore tech turns carbon into mush after a long period.
 
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