Bullet selection question

[mrb1982]

I would like to load up some 168gr Berger's for my 7mm Rem Mag Sendero. The thing is, I don't shoot all my deer "long range." Sometimes I shoot deer at 100yds, sometimes I shoot deer further. I would like to leave myself with the possibility of shooting something around 800-900yds if I wanted/needed to.

My question is, will the Bergers work well at close range or would I have some problems with them performing properly?

Currently I shoot 162gr Interlock Spire Point Hornady's. They seem to work well, but if I want to shooting closer to 800-1000yds, I am guessing the extra BC would help me out. I shot an antelope at 700yds this year without any problem. I don't get to elk hunt, although I would like to in the near future, but I mostly mule deer hunt. Basically just curious if the Berger's will perform at close ranges and long ranges both. Thanks.

 

[barnesuser28]

i would look at the 162 grain A-Max or 168 grain Barnes LRX. Both have high enough bc's to get you too 1k.

 

[WildRose]

I would like to load up some 168gr Berger's for my 7mm Rem Mag Sendero. The thing is, I don't shoot all my deer "long range." Sometimes I shoot deer at 100yds, sometimes I shoot deer further. I would like to leave myself with the possibility of shooting something around 800-900yds if I wanted/needed to.

My question is, will the Bergers work well at close range or would I have some problems with them performing properly?

Currently I shoot 162gr Interlock Spire Point Hornady's. They seem to work well, but if I want to shooting closer to 800-1000yds, I am guessing the extra BC would help me out. I shot an antelope at 700yds this year without any problem. I don't get to elk hunt, although I would like to in the near future, but I mostly mule deer hunt. Basically just curious if the Berger's will perform at close ranges and long ranges both. Thanks.

Just go to the Interbond or Swift Sirocco II and problem solved.

 

[Broz]

Basically just curious if the Berger's will perform at close ranges and long ranges both. Thanks.

The answer is yes. They will work for both. But understand no bullet can be best at both. In order to get good expansion at long distances where velocity of the bullet is lower, you will have more expansion at short distances with higher bullet velocity. Plenty on game has been taken at close range with Bergers, just expect more damage and larger exits than a less expansive bullet. But the less expansive bullet has a higher risk of no expansion at long range. So, my personal preference is a bullet with great BC for less drift and better placement along with great accuracy at long range that also will kill effectively at short distances where shot placement is easier.

We took 19 big game animals this season at both close and long distances with the same rifle and Berger bullets. I posted pics of the entrances and exits on the kills in this thread. Look it over and decide if the Bergers will work for your needs. I would also suggest you consider the 180s as I feel it is better to use the larger offerings for the caliber in all hunting situations where long range could be involved.

Here are a couple threads with actual field results.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/cmparing-berger-210-vld-215-hybrid-88657/

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/berger-230-300-otm-hybrid-terminal-results-80283/

Jeff

 

[mrb1982]

Yowwzers. Those are some impressive holes. I am gonna have to think aweful long and hard about it though. I am concerned when shooting the deer at closer range that it may possibly be a little more viscious than I would like. On the other hand, I might have to get over it just to have a good setup for long range.

I heard a mention of the interbonds. What's the reasoning behind that? Do they stick together better?

 

[WildRose]

Yowwzers. Those are some impressive holes. I am gonna have to think aweful long and hard about it though. I am concerned when shooting the deer at closer range that it may possibly be a little more viscious than I would like. On the other hand, I might have to get over it just to have a good setup for long range.

I heard a mention of the interbonds. What's the reasoning behind that? Do they stick together better?

The interbonds expand easily but hold their weight like the interlock. A great bullet for multiple uses/velocities. I've had great success with them in the 7mm's on everything from bobcats to large boars.

Up close or far away the exit wounds routinely are 1-2.5" and even with shoulder shots on big boars I've always had an exit.

They and the Siroccos have become my go to bullets for everything.

 

[mrb1982]

I will have to take a look at them.

So out of curiousity, for the guys who are shooting long range, is there anybody really shooting anything besides Berger's? Is there really any other option that lies between the 160-170gr option?

Also, I have been shooting these 162gr spire point Interlock Hornady's with a BC of .514. Is that "enough" so to speak BC to shoot deer at the ranges I am interested? Obviously, the more BC, the better of course. Just curious if it is worth the fuss to switch loads and rework everything if I have a load that performs well and will be "efficient enough," for lack of better explanation, to shoot animals in the ranges I am interested?

Thanks for all your help.

 

[Joe King]

I shot a Muley buck with the 168gr classic Hunter this years at the insane distance of 50yrds , impact velocity was about 2900fps. He was 1/4 away at a pretty good angle. the bullet took out 4 ribs on the nearside ripped off the bottom of his lungs and 1 piece of the jacket stopped in the off side shoulder, pieces of bone from the ribs went through other organs also tearing them up in the process, oddly no part of the digestive tract was touched at all, but every major artery in the body cavity was ruptured, no exit but that close I didn't expect it to. I lost maybe 2lbs wrapped meat, probably less, I still ended up with 60lbs of meat in the freezer. So yea Id have to say they work up close too.

 

[mrb1982]

I shot a Muley buck with the 168gr classic Hunter this years at the insane distance of 50yrds , impact velocity was about 2900fps. He was 1/4 away at a pretty good angle. the bullet took out 4 ribs on the nearside ripped off the bottom of his lungs and 1 piece of the jacket stopped in the off side shoulder, pieces of bone from the ribs went through other organs also tearing them up in the process, oddly no part of the digestive tract was touched at all, but every major artery in the body cavity was ruptured, no exit but that close I didn't expect it to. I lost maybe 2lbs wrapped meat, probably less, I still ended up with 60lbs of meat in the freezer. So yea Id have to say they work up close too.

Sweet, kinda what I was wondering. I shoot some does for sausage and sometimes they range from 30yds to as far away as I want to drag them from. hahaha I also do some antler hunting of course, and in that case, I am not as worried about wrecking meat. But when I am shooting does, it is specifically for feeding my family so I don't want to shoot should 5 deer and end up with 50lbs of meat or something like that because the bullet went crazy on them. So your story pleases me and meets my desires.

The other question I have is since the bullet works by viscious expansion, have you ever had any problems with a bunch of tiny particles/fragments in your meat? I am pretty liberal around areas I've shot making sure I trim it off so I don't imagine it would be a problem for me. I am just curious I guess. Thanks for your help.

 

[Joe King]

Sweet, kinda what I was wondering. I shoot some does for sausage and sometimes they range from 30yds to as far away as I want to drag them from. hahaha I also do some antler hunting of course, and in that case, I am not as worried about wrecking meat. But when I am shooting does, it is specifically for feeding my family so I don't want to shoot should 5 deer and end up with 50lbs of meat or something like that because the bullet went crazy on them. So your story pleases me and meets my desires.

The other question I have is since the bullet works by viscious expansion, have you ever had any problems with a bunch of tiny particles/fragments in your meat? I am pretty liberal around areas I've shot making sure I trim it off so I don't imagine it would be a problem for me. I am just curious I guess. Thanks for your help.

I really thought I was going to find fragments all over. I process my own game so I made sure to dig around and the only piece I could find was a small fragment of the jacket about 2" in the offside shoulder.

I also tried the same bullet in 243 95gr, my GF shot her 1st buck at about 200yrds with it, that one passed though but it didn't tear up things much that you wouldn't want torn up. She hit him at the back of the shoulder the bullet went through the shoulder meat before expanding in the chest, made a mess of his lungs, then made thumb sized exit hole. I bet we didn't loose more than 1/4lb of meat from the entry. Didn't find any fragments from that either.

 

[mrb1982]

I really thought I was going to find fragments all over. I process my own game so I made sure to dig around and the only piece I could find was a small fragment of the jacket about 2" in the offside shoulder.

I also tried the same bullet in 243 95gr, my GF shot her 1st buck at about 200yrds with it, that one passed though but it didn't tear up things much that you wouldn't want torn up. She hit him at the back of the shoulder the bullet went through the shoulder meat before expanding in the chest, made a mess of his lungs, then made thumb sized exit hole. I bet we didn't loose more than 1/4lb of meat from the entry. Didn't find any fragments from that either.

That is awesome. Your experiences are exactly what I was wondering. Makes it an easy decision for me. Doesn't really sound like you would actually lose any more meat with these Bergers than you would after cutting all the normal bloody areas out from a more "conventional bullet."

 

[cowboy]

My question is, will the Bergers work well at close range or would I have some problems with them performing properly?

I have personally taken and seen the results of probably 20 head of game taken with the 168 VLD (hunting) in .284 under or close to 100 yds. All were taken out of 280AI's starting at 2800-2875 FPS. We have had no problems - with that said I'm sure someone has another "what happened to me story".

In the last couple years these animals have included elk, black bear (maybe 40 yds), deer, antelope and one mountain goat.

I have been following all the Berger postings quite closely and am absolulely amazed on some of the postings - and I might add some have pictures to go with the postings.

I follow the theory that "BROZ" has posted a number of times. I go by "my" personal testing and results. With that said I'd suggest you try whatever bullet tickles your fancy - buy some anterless tags or whatever - and do your own tests and autopsies after the kill.

There are a number of members on this forum that I have become to trust - just because my tests and evaluations coincide with their postings. There are other posts that I want to question or call "BS" but sometimes it's just best as my wife says to keep my mouth shut.

All I can tell you is to repeat that there is no perfect bullet from 50 to 1000 yds.

 

[mrb1982]

You pretty much sum it up with the line about there being no perfect bullet. That is just all there is to it. And if anybody ever figures out the "perfect bullet" they will have solved all the worlds ballistic problems. hahaha

I think I will probably try the Berger's, like you said, and see how they work on my own. I agree with you, Broz is one of the leaders of knowledge on this topic. I am just trying to gather as much info as I can before I make a decision.

I am also thinking of going with the new Hybrids for the simple reason that they are not as sensitive to seating depth and may be a little easier to work with for the small sacrifice in BC. I will have to do a little more research on that. Thanks again.

 

[Joe King]

I agree with you, Broz is one of the leaders of knowledge on this topic.

the very reason I am thinking about trying the 180gr hybrids