Berger or hammer bullets??

[UplandFreak]

Didn't litz show it as .237 g7?

My brother in law's ended up being close to Litz - he had to tweak the BC to .25 G7 for his rifle with the 177 hammers - that was with a 7.5 twist at 4500ft elevation. It was way lower than what he was hoping for so he moved on.

 

[Sako284]

You've made this claim twice, please explain how you arrived on that conclusion.
A 180 ELDM has a much higher BC than a 180 vld at .79 I've validated it to 1400 yards, is that nuts?

It is not possibly for a mono of a hammer design to have BC comparable to a equal weight VLD. Even the grand poobah of hammer bullets himself has said this to before. If you don't understand why this is then you need to go back to the intellectual drawing board.

 

[Savage 12BVSS]

You need to shoot them both and see what your rifle likes best. I have on rifle that shoots the Hammers unbelievable and another that just does not like the Hammers too well.

That to me says it all, use what the rifle shoots the best. Some rigs will love one and some rigs another, or if you are lucky both will shoot well and it will be up to you to decide.

 

[Westernhuntr]

It is not possibly for a mono of a hammer design to have BC comparable to a equal weight VLD. Even the grand poobah of hammer bullets himself has said this to before. If you don't understand why this is then you need to go back to the intellectual drawing board.

I guess I should be suspect of the cutting edge 252 MTH that I'm testing then, although it looks nothing like a hammer..
It's advertised at .750 while the 250 vld is .68
Maybe we should have a thread on why the heck BC's are all over the place!

 

[Sako284]

I guess I should be suspect of the cutting edge 252 MTH that I'm testing then, although it looks nothing like a hammer..
It's advertised at .750 while the 250 vld is .68
Maybe we should have a thread on why the heck BC's are all over the place!

Where did. I mention a a cutting edge? I specifically said hammer? I guess hammer started making CEs

 

[Westernhuntr]

Where did. I mention a a cutting edge? I specifically said hammer? I guess hammer started making CEs

Chill home slice..
I'm not arguing with you
All these BC disputes seriously have me wondering if CE is hyping theirs

 

[UplandFreak]

I guess I should be suspect of the cutting edge 252 MTH that I'm testing then, although it looks nothing like a hammer..
It's advertised at .750 while the 250 vld is .68
Maybe we should have a thread on why the heck BC's are all over the place!

Not everybody hypes their bullets BCs. Cutting edge bullets are legit - lots of guys using them in King of 2 mile. As always you test them and validate the BCs in your gun. BCs vary based on twist rates and velocity. Still, most manufacturers can get you pretty close. You might just need to tweak them a little bit.

 

[bigngreen]

Chill home slice..
I'm not arguing with you
All these BC disputes seriously have me wondering if CE is hyping theirs

They way hyped their BC's early on and now with Litz testing they have become more realistic but I always weigh advertised to Litz tested and go from there.

 

[sp6x6]

It was brought up on here way back when.Litz was first gettting published data out on it,first books? Somebody?Timeframe?

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Litz tests to the transonic and averages the bc for the entire flight then publishes that number. It's too far. If I use his average bc I will shoot over a target at 600y. I have never tried, but am guessing if you use his drag curve it will line up.

@LibtardMcSocialist not sure why you need to be so aggressive. We are a home grown business giving everything we have to do this right. We have no intention of lying about our product, would be the worst thing we could do for business. We use the best material that exists, and do everything we can to make the best bullet possible. I never tear down or bad mouth any other bullet to try and make us look good. If you have used our bullet and did not like it, then post your results. I would be the most interested one to hear that.

The 177 is listed with a min twist of 8". If I were building a rifle to run it I would use a 7 or 7.5 twist. This would get the stability where it really needs to be. Most guys are running it very well in 8" twist some have trouble. It is a very long for caliber bullet, particularly for it's weight. Bullets than long get tough to deal with in some rifles.

 

[Westernhuntr]

Litz tests to the transonic and averages the bc for the entire flight then publishes that number. It's too far. If I use his average bc I will shoot over a target at 600y. I have never tried, but am guessing if you use his drag curve it will line up.

@LibtardMcSocialist not sure why you need to be so aggressive. We are a home grown business giving everything we have to do this right. We have no intention of lying about our product, would be the worst thing we could do for business. We use the best material that exists, and do everything we can to make the best bullet possible. I never tear down or bad mouth any other bullet to try and make us look good. If you have used our bullet and did not like it, then post your results. I would be the most interested one to hear that.

The 177 is listed with a min twist of 8". If I were building a rifle to run it I would use a 7 or 7.5 twist. This would get the stability where it really needs to be. Most guys are running it very well in 8" twist some have trouble. It is a very long for caliber bullet, particularly for it's weight. Bullets than long get tough to deal with in some rifles.

I for one appreciate what you contribute to this forum, and you conduct yourself very well.
With all the hate I have to say I respect your thick skin.
I'd like to give your bullets a try at some point, maybe in my 8 twist 6.5 saum if you have a heavier bullet with a decent BC

 

[Rich Coyle]

Westernhuntr,

Just a heads up and a disclaimer. I have no financial interest in Hammer Bullets other than wanting them to stay in business so I can purchase more.

I bought an 8 twist Pac-Nor and it would not stabilize the 124 Hammer Hunter. Never-the-less with them keyholing at 300 yards I still got about a 4 1/2" six shot group. I switched to the 130 that used to be called Sledgehammer. They are fantastic. I love that big hollow point. I guess if you want to shot pointy bullets ask Steve or someone here.

 

[GLTaylor]

I have become a huge fan of Hammer bullets. No they don't sponsor me. I just like it when something works very well - and they do.
I tried some to see what all the fuss was about. I now have 4 of my rifles set up with hammers and (weather permitting) will start shooting loads i have ready for the 5th rifle tomorrow!
I shot mostly Bergers for years. They are still mighty fine bullets. Nothing wrong with them. I just like the accuracy AND minimal meat damage that Hammers give you. Call me a fan boy. I could care less. I like what i like for a reason

 

[UplandFreak]

Litz tests to the transonic and averages the bc for the entire flight then publishes that number. It's too far.

I understand his process. His number was really close for us, as stated before, we had to tweak it up a little. Why is it too far for your bullets if his process works for most others?

Just seems like you wanting to them to be some high bc long range hunting bullet and they aren't. Its like putting a square peg in a round hole. From a strategic standpoint I would think it better to understate and over perform rather than over state and under perform. Unmet expectations lead to disappointment. If you are claiming the difference in BC causes you to shoot over a target at 600yards, imagine the disappointment of somebody that gets closer to Litz's number shoots under the target.

You have such a huge following, its evident that a lot of guys will use your bullet regardless of the bc and are happy with their performance. Why not just advertise Litz's BC and then be able to tell people it has the potential to perform much better.

Good luck luck with everything. I hope you get it all figured out. Small businesses are the heart of america.