BERGER BEWARE!

lancetkenyon

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Jun 3, 2013
Messages
2,826
Location
Arizona
Meplat variations will make changes in COAL, but will have no bearing on CBTO or jump to lands variations.
I never even measure COAL except to verify a round will fit in a magazine or box.
A seating stem does not use the ogive to bearing surface to seat bullets. They seat up near the tip, but do not use the meplat either. So changes in bullet will cause differences in both ogive and seating depth.
 

aushunter1

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Nov 16, 2012
Messages
709
Location
Australia
The whole components field, powder, primer, projectile, brass will change from batch to batch!

Sure if you buy 5,000 of the same batch of projectiles then that will reduce a variable, do you buy 15lb of the same powder to shoot the same projectile knowing very well there could be some deterioration in the powder after 3 or 4 years it might take to shoot the projectiles??

This is all part of the variable of reloading.

If a load changes then re work it again.

That's life in the reloading world imo.
 

FEENIX

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LRH Team Member
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Dec 20, 2008
Messages
13,824
Location
Great Falls, MT
this is nothing new at all
Its not berger its every single bullet manufacturer in the world..
not having a simple check list when getting a new lot or box of bullets, new jug of powder, new lot of primers, new lot of brass etc.... is simply not good loading prep
^^^ THIS! ^^^. Most of us have reloading notes. Like you, I adjust accordingly to any changes from the original load or to establish a new reference point.
 
Last edited:

Tiny Tim

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Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
407
Anyone take one of each bullet and seat them without changing the seatting on the die, then measure the cbto?
Your seating die is pressing somewhere on the nose of the bullet between the ogive and tip. Bullets are being measured from the base to ogive, none of which related to where the seating die contacts the bullet. Which is what would change the ogive/lands relationship.
While I have not personally done this, ultimately bullets from the same lot ought to be consistent in manufacture. Diameters measured at various points along the length of the bullet should be consistent. The least consistent measurement is that of OAL due to meplat deformity resulting from the ejecting pin. So no matter where you "push' the bullet in or measure length, it should be consistent so long as your not using the tip. All of these are "reference points". This is why it is generally ill advised to use say a Sinclair Hex Ogive measuring tool to set up a CBTO and then go to a buddies place and use his Hornady Ogive Comparator to set the same CBTO. It's likely you will have differing results and may or may not be safe.

If bullets change in the reference dimension with your comparator by .005", expect a difference of .005" difference in CBTO even though the seating stem contacts the bullet at a different point than your comparator. Even with this consistency, you may experience a variation of .015 when measuring COAL.

We'd like more consistency, but the realities of life and manufacturing processes say that what we have available to us today is nothing short of incredible. Sorry for the "book".
 

hlcclh

New Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
1
Whenever I buy components, i.e., bullets, I always buy them in same lot #’s of 500, 1000, or 1500. The attached photos show the reason why I do this.
Yesterday, I ran out of my supply of the “red label” batch of Berger’s and started on the standard “yellow box” of bullets. Always, I check the case head to Ogive measurement to get the cartridge overall length ( C.O.A.L.). I discovered that I was getting @ 0.015 difference in COAL . Additionally, I knew that my brass was not the problem ( 3rd. firing, all trimmed to exact length). The issue had to be in the bullets... and I had JUST switched lot #’s. If I had been setting the “jump” at 0.005”, that new round would have put me jammed into the lands @ 0.010”. At worst scenario: potentially dangerous pressure, at best: ruined accuracy.
Just posting this to show members what can happen and why OCD is not necessarily a bad disease to have when rolling your own.View attachment 196263View attachment 196262View attachment 196264View attachment 196265
Thank you for posting. Good information.
 

Eric Alexander

Active Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2015
Messages
33
YES it is the reason to buy in lots
BUT
BULLET DIES WEAR...IT IS A FACT OF LIFE, GET OVER IT
buy your own dies and make your own bullets
assembling new loads with a new lot of bullets WITHOUT MEASURING THEM FIRST IS A POOR RELOADING PLAN.
BERGER IS FINE, the reloader is the issue.
Bullet dies wear. It is a fact of life. Sure. And Berger is responsible to change them before they get this far. How much slop do you allow before it becomes poor quality control?
 

Svashtar

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Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
67
Location
Central Coast, CA
YES it is the reason to buy in lots
BUT
BULLET DIES WEAR...IT IS A FACT OF LIFE, GET OVER IT
buy your own dies and make your own bullets
assembling new loads with a new lot of bullets WITHOUT MEASURING THEM FIRST IS A POOR RELOADING PLAN.
BERGER IS FINE, the reloader is the issue.
Uh, I’m not sure if you noticed, but he IS MEASURING THE BULLETS FIRST! (It’s not COAL though.) Hence this post? 🤔

And this inconsistency within a single batch from Berger is fine but HE is the issue because he’s trusting in that consistency and quality he paid for, instead of making his own? Ookay...

BTW, there’s nothing for the OP to be lectured on, or to “get over.” He took the time to notify the forum of a quality issue.
 

Svashtar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
67
Location
Central Coast, CA
Bullet dies wear, also, different dies are used on a production line.

Bullet making dies screwed down more, will have shorter ogive length, so a set up man is important.

Set up men working different shifts or days may set up a die differently. There is a pin in the top of the die that touches the top of the bullet, and these pins break and get bent. The point up die has to be screwed out of the press, knock out pin replaced, then the die is installed back in the press. Thus, you can get different ogive lengths.

Dies get scratched, they have to be lapped out vs discarded, thus Ogive lengths change from a replacement point up die or a lapped out die.

Do your own QC.
Which he’s doing! Geez, it’s like everyone read a different post than I did...🤔🙄
 

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