BERGER BEWARE!

Greyfox

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Joined
Jan 21, 2008
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5,522
Location
Northeast
For quite a few years I have been measuring the dimensions( BTO, BS, weight, ogive to tip, boat-tail length, meplat, and caliber of my bullets that are used for LRH and precision competition. Berger has surely evolved in the dimensions/specs of many of their standard offerings(ie 140 HVLD) but I have almost always been able to achieve prior results with minor load adjustments. I would also contend that the consistency in dimensions are better currently then they were 10 years ago. The recent 156 EOL’s appear to be quite consistent. Regardless, I will usually attempt to purchase bullets in large lot sizes when feasible. So far, the best consistency I have experienced from a manufacturer besides the no longer available “Swampworks” offerings Which I would classify as custom bullets, has been with my past four, 500 ct (different lots) of Hornady 140gr ELD-M’s used for PRS competition in my 6.5x47L. Measurements have been close enough to not require a change in load parameters to produce consistent results to +1000 yards. BTO has been within .003” and OL less then >010”.
Perhaps it’s just been luck, but they seem to have the process under good control.
 

jgs8163

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Sep 27, 2011
Messages
595
Location
Southern Arizona
This thread was worth reading just to find out about the Sinclair Hex Comparator. So much better than the Hornady that requires changing the bushing for each bullet size.

thanks for draining $20 out of my pocket! ;)
DITTO. Another tool added to the bench. I couldn’t figure out if I needed a adjustable wrench to go with the Sinclair tool. 😜
 

Cesky fousek

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Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
24
Location
Canada
Whenever I buy components, i.e., bullets, I always buy them in same lot #’s of 500, 1000, or 1500. The attached photos show the reason why I do this.
Yesterday, I ran out of my supply of the “red label” batch of Berger’s and started on the standard “yellow box” of bullets. Always, I check the case head to Ogive measurement to get the cartridge overall length ( C.O.A.L.). I discovered that I was getting @ 0.015 difference in COAL . Additionally, I knew that my brass was not the problem ( 3rd. firing, all trimmed to exact length). The issue had to be in the bullets... and I had JUST switched lot #’s. If I had been setting the “jump” at 0.005”, that new round would have put me jammed into the lands @ 0.010”. At worst scenario: potentially dangerous pressure, at best: ruined accuracy.
Just posting this to show members what can happen and why OCD is not necessarily a bad disease to have when rolling your own.View attachment 196263View attachment 196262View attachment 196264View attachment 196265
Poor guy all he mentioned the inconsistency of Berger bullets and that's what he gets
Best thing to do is call Berger and tell them about it
 

BASE424

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2019
Messages
24
Location
USA
Whenever I buy components, i.e., bullets, I always buy them in same lot #’s of 500, 1000, or 1500. The attached photos show the reason why I do this.
Yesterday, I ran out of my supply of the “red label” batch of Berger’s and started on the standard “yellow box” of bullets. Always, I check the case head to Ogive measurement to get the cartridge overall length ( C.O.A.L.). I discovered that I was getting @ 0.015 difference in COAL . Additionally, I knew that my brass was not the problem ( 3rd. firing, all trimmed to exact length). The issue had to be in the bullets... and I had JUST switched lot #’s. If I had been setting the “jump” at 0.005”, that new round would have put me jammed into the lands @ 0.010”. At worst scenario: potentially dangerous pressure, at best: ruined accuracy.
Just posting this to show members what can happen and why OCD is not necessarily a bad disease to have when rolling your own.View attachment 196263View attachment 196262View attachment 196264View attachment 196265
I’m not saying this is the answer BUT, Berger has switched location from CA. I think back to AZ. According to a couple old timers I seek knowledge from every now and then said when they move these machines and recalibrate them up again they are susceptible to variations. I have pre and post “move” 6mm Hybrid Target projectiles have significant (.0020”) variations. The same can happen when the recalibrate from lot to lot. Just food for thought.
 

jlvandersnick

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Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
486
Location
Hamilton, Montana
Been shooting bergers for maybe 20yrs. Sure there are some minor inconsistancies lot to lot. Only to be expected from the processes required to manufacture bullets
If you want to see real inconsistancy....weight some nosler bullets. As much as one grain difference. Not the .1 grain that you might see with bergers..but a full grain.
Hornady bullets can be almost as bad.
In my experience bergers are one of the... if not the most consistant bullets available
 

GLTaylor

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Joined
Oct 11, 2019
Messages
452
Location
Cedar Bluff, Al
Bergers ARE consistent within reason. I shot them for several years at 1-200 yd benchrest. Wish we had Hammers back then. They do not vary at all in wt or dimensions. Course they are individually turned on a cnc machine and a bit pricey for volume shooting. For hunting that's all i use now in all of my rifles😋
 

RockyMtnMT

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Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
5,658
Location
Montana
I think part of the problem is the definition of ogive. It is not a specific point on the the nose of the bullet. It is the shape of the nose of the bullet. Comparator tools are nice but also flawed. They are a hole of some size that slides onto a radius. If the dia of a bullet varies by .0002" the tool will register a much larger difference in length than .0002" because it will slide more or less down the ogive of the bullet exponentially to the diff in the actual dia diff from bullet to bullet.

Good thread and worth the read.
 

Tiny Tim

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Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
377
I think part of the problem is the definition of ogive. It is not a specific point on the the nose of the bullet. It is the shape of the nose of the bullet. Comparator tools are nice but also flawed. They are a hole of some size that slides onto a radius. If the dia of a bullet varies by .0002" the tool will register a much larger difference in length than .0002" because it will slide more or less down the ogive of the bullet exponentially to the diff in the actual dia diff from bullet to bullet.

Good thread and worth the read.
Great point! As the angle of the bullet profile becomes more acute, the greater the longitudinal dimension is affected by the diameter, whether bullet or comparator. Thus the importance of using the same comparator all the time.
 

coop2564

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Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
595
Location
Texas
Match vs standard from their site.

Long ago, we made a commitment to a factual, scientific-based marketing position so we decided to leave the “Match Grade” on the box. Later, when we made thicker jackets to resolve an issue with bullets used on targets, we separated the bullets made on standard thickness jackets into the “Hunting” line since these are the bullets that are known to work so well on game.
 

RockyMtnMT

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Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
5,658
Location
Montana
Great point! As the angle of the bullet profile becomes more acute, the greater the longitudinal dimension is affected by the diameter, whether bullet or comparator. Thus the importance of using the same comparator all the time.
Correct. I worry that guys see what they think is a big difference from one bullet to another that really is quite minute. The more secant the ogive the less a dia change will show. When it really comes down to it the baring surface length will make the biggest diff in accuracy. The amount of bullet in contact with the bore will change how the bullet releases from the barrel.
 

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