BERGER BEWARE!

Doug Herold

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Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Messages
163
Whenever I buy components, i.e., bullets, I always buy them in same lot #’s of 500, 1000, or 1500. The attached photos show the reason why I do this.
Yesterday, I ran out of my supply of the “red label” batch of Berger’s and started on the standard “yellow box” of bullets. Always, I check the case head to Ogive measurement to get the cartridge overall length ( C.O.A.L.). I discovered that I was getting @ 0.015 difference in COAL . Additionally, I knew that my brass was not the problem ( 3rd. firing, all trimmed to exact length). The issue had to be in the bullets... and I had JUST switched lot #’s. If I had been setting the “jump” at 0.005”, that new round would have put me jammed into the lands @ 0.010”. At worst scenario: potentially dangerous pressure, at best: ruined accuracy.
Just posting this to show members what can happen and why OCD is not necessarily a bad disease to have when rolling your own.
A6A4D44B-497D-403A-90F9-4037C1EC3893.jpeg
005FDC15-4202-434D-9912-C4CCCA2EBDEF.jpeg
1883A1CB-107A-481A-BF59-E043C6CA1514.jpeg
6C06ECC1-780F-4AD0-A441-41814F925BD8.jpeg
 
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P7id10t

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Jan 5, 2016
Messages
131
Location
Orygun
Not surprised. I also see bullet variations within the same lot.
I've never found a bullet that shot well in my guns, jammed to the lands.
I would also hope, if you're > 4 mils jammed in, that you would stop at the "no-go" bolt signature instead of ramming it home.
Edit to add: I like that Sinclair Hex comparator. I tire of my Hornadys.
 

rsmithsr

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Joined
Oct 29, 2019
Messages
455
Location
phoenix
YES it is the reason to buy in lots
BUT
BULLET DIES WEAR...IT IS A FACT OF LIFE, GET OVER IT
buy your own dies and make your own bullets
assembling new loads with a new lot of bullets WITHOUT MEASURING THEM FIRST IS A POOR RELOADING PLAN.
BERGER IS FINE, the reloader is the issue.
 

Mikecr

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Joined
Aug 10, 2003
Messages
5,195
Location
NC, oceanfront
If I had been setting the “jump” at 0.005”, that new round would have put me jammed into the lands @ 0.010”. At worst scenario: potentially dangerous pressure, at best: ruined accuracy.
No, if you 'had been setting' land relationship at 5thou off, that's what you'd have. You'd always measure and adjust your die for that, and verify it. Nothing just puts you anywhere, except yourself.
It's reloading 101 (not OCD).

Also, no measurement pictured is COAL.
You show bullet BTO, and cartridge CBTO.
And again, it's reloading 101 that components change with lot.
I hope you understand that powder lots also change,, and brass lots,, and primer lots.
 

P7id10t

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Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Messages
131
Location
Orygun
reloader is the issue.
I think @Doug Herold is doing his part here.

Edit to add:
No, if you 'had been setting' land relationship at 5thou off, that's what you'd have.
My experience says otherwise. Please explain if I'm not understanding something.
When I talk about differences within lots, I see metplat as well as tip variations which WILL change the proximity of seating to the lands and COAL.
However, I don't load to shoot critters at 1km, nor for competition. Hence, I don't measure B2O for every round loaded, nor sort my cases or bullets. I do check COAL and test chamber every round. The variations in COAL and rounds that wouldn't chamber are where I found the metplat differences.
For those that pass inspection, I don't shoot well enough to see the effect of these variations at 300 yards.
 
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keithcandler

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Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
632
Bullet dies wear, also, different dies are used on a production line.

Bullet making dies screwed down more, will have shorter ogive length, so a set up man is important.

Set up men working different shifts or days may set up a die differently. There is a pin in the top of the die that touches the top of the bullet, and these pins break and get bent. The point up die has to be screwed out of the press, knock out pin replaced, then the die is installed back in the press. Thus, you can get different ogive lengths.

Dies get scratched, they have to be lapped out vs discarded, thus Ogive lengths change from a replacement point up die or a lapped out die.

Do your own QC.
 

rsmithsr

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Joined
Oct 29, 2019
Messages
455
Location
phoenix
this is a LONG RANGE site.
300 is not long range, your process may work for you at short range, it will not work at long range.

I think @Doug Herold is doing his part here.

Edit to add:
My experience says otherwise. Please explain if I'm not understanding something.
When I talk about differences within lots, I see metplat as well as tip variations which WILL change the proximity of seating to the lands and COAL.
However, I don't load to shoot critters at 1km, nor for competition. Hence, I don't measure B2O for every round loaded, nor sort my cases or bullets. I do check COAL and test chamber every round. The variations in COAL and rounds that wouldn't chamber are where I found the metplat differences.
For those that pass inspection, I don't shoot well enough to see the effect of these variations at 300 yards.
 

GLTaylor

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2019
Messages
459
Location
Cedar Bluff, Al
Good info and a good reminder not to get complacement in our handloading. If you change Anything - re-measure and re-verify. A good reason to buy as many as you can, same lot, of your favorite bullets.
Another reason I like Hammer bullets so much. Almost NO variation (CNC turned).
 

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