Bear spray vs Bullets

[Pdvdh]

Re: The True Problem with Bear Spray

Yeah, the lady suffered a real whooping/mauling. Lucky for her that another man ran forward facing the risking his own life.

This mauling happened back in August, and I've thought long and hard about the core problem with carrying Bear Spray as the sole means of bear defense.

In all seriousness, here's the problem - bears can't read! lightbulb

Heee hee heeeee - LMAO... well I think it's funny...

 

[hidesert]

I was a seasonal Park Ranger in Glacier Natl Park many years ago. I never had an encounter with a Grizzly on the trail but I received a good deal of training and read everything I could find on the subject. From that perspective here are my conclusions:

Bear spray used properly is effective nearly all of the time. There are few exceptions.

Handguns are sub-optimal as a defense. One thoughtful observation by a witty expert was the best part of carrying a handgun was that it might give you the guts to do the right thing in case of a charge by a bear: stand your ground (bears often make false charges, ending a few feet from you).

My best case scenario is to have a partner; one of us armed with bear spray and other with my S&W .44 Mag Mtn Gun loaded with Keith hard cast 256 gr bullets back by 23.5 grs of H110.

 

[Pdvdh]

I was a seasonal Park Ranger in Glacier Natl Park many years ago. I never had an encounter with a Grizzly on the trail but I received a good deal of training and read everything I could find on the subject.

My best case scenario is to have a partner; one of us armed with bear spray and other with my S&W .44 Mag Mtn Gun loaded with Keith hard cast 256 gr bullets back by 23.5 grs of H110.

Surprised you never had a brush with the grizzly bears in that Park.

Not much arguing with your preferred option. I'd opt for a Remington 870 with Brenneke slugs. There are numerous pros and cons. The revolver is more convenient to carry. The Brenneke slug much more debilitating and deadly on the bear.

 

[KillerBee]

3" Magnum slugs would have stopped that bear in its tracks, at least made it rethink about moving forward as moving forward results in a massive incurable headache!

I prefer to rely on a big stick that makes a "BANG!", instead of an aerosol spray can loaded with Hi Mountain Seasonings. lightbulb

Just saying! gun)

 

[fmajor]

I posted this in a similar thread in the "Elk Hunting" sub-forum so it's relevant here as well.

I've never hunted in grizz country and am not likely to. This isn't because i'm so afraid that i wouldn't; rather the species i'm interested in eating is found within my state.

However, coming from a self-defense background as well as CQB training and specific handgun training I am fairly confident in my thoughts/opinions if i did venture into grizz/Kodiak brown country.

In every fight or emergency incident i've encountered (whether in LE or whatever) time seemingly slows down as our minds are racing at nanospeed. In retrospect it always seems like i/we could have reacted faster, etc.

What is forgotten in these scenarios is that while the opponent/aggressor seems to be moving slowly - so am I.

These situations happen so fast and unexpectedly that putting a long rifle or shotgun onto the target is much less likely to be successful than a handgun.

For many years I have been a strong advocate of using bear spray as i've seen/read of incidents by survivors who were successful with it, but of late I'm also reading the ineffectiveness of even appropriately employed bear spray.

This has caused me to re-consider the value of the firearms training i've had over the decades.

An easily/quickly deployed powerful handgun is probably the best line of defense in these extreme situations. Someone who trains regularly or at least semi-regularly in "Point Shooting" techniques with a powerful handgun would be the best prepared for these explosively fast incidents.

Training in such a manner is something most people simply will not do.

It's challenging enough to convince the average "Elmer Fudd" to practice with their hunting rifle....let alone adding another firearm that needs to be learned and using a technique that is not intended for precision. But that is exactly what will save someones life.

 

[KillerBee]

Remember the old saying Practice, Practice, Practice!

I hunt in Grizz country with a bow and always have a Defender on my back. I can have it on target and fire 2 deadly shots in 3 seconds, timed!

 

[FEENIX]

[ame]https://youtu.be/8RHkGOc137A?t=1[/ame]

 

[KillerBee]

Interesting story, I learned two things:

1. When its time to shoot, shoot and don't scream bear.
2. When you are aiming at a bear in a lethal situation, like they were in, have the safety on off! lightbulb

The last government count in one of the provinces I hunt in has over 16,000 griz, so I always have my defender with me and at the ready, but that's just me.

Anyway you slice it, being attacked by any bear is not a fun situation. Happened to me once, the bear went to heaven I went directly to a local bar and got HAMMERED!

 

[J E Custom]

Sorry for the confusion... bear spray vs bullets was the title of the article I posted.

However my point was that I don't carry a hand gun when backpack hunting. That being said some of the post on here about bear spray failing to spray may lead to reconsideration on my part to rely on bear spray.

I am not convinced that a hand gun stop a bear before it gets to you, but I have not tried shot a charging grizz so I don't know. Nor have I used spray on one either so I, like you have to make a choice on what to use. You have made your choice and I make a choice each time I go in field. Unless you have faced down and shot a charging grizzly you are basing your opinion and choice on someone else's experience or just assuming you are right. That's OK because that's exactly what I am doing. This thread is an opportunity to discuss and debate the topic and that's what we are doing. I find it interesting that some people however, decide to state their opinion by being insulting to those that do not agree with them. There is a lot of evidence on the web that suggests that spray is more effective. Ive read similar articles in hunting magazines. I have not found a single written article or any evidence for that matter, other than in forums, that recommends a 44 mag over bear spray. There might be evidence I just haven't seen it. Going forward I will research for failure of bear spray. Maybe

Like everyone else, I have an opinion on the difference between the Two.

First, from the bears perspective. If I were a bear and had my choice of things to be shot with, I would choose the Spray every time. It is not lethal, It will only hurt for a while and if I can I will take out my revenge on the person that sprayed me because I have plenty of time to do so.

From the persons perspective. I want something that will end the bears ability to wage war on me and be fatal for the bear, so that even if he doesn't die immediately at least it will happen soon and the mauling will stop at some point. I have never heard of bear spray killing a bear but a bullet will.

I know a can of spray weighs less than a pistol, shotgun or a rifle but to me carrying 5 to 10 pounds
is worth the extra weight in case something bad happens. while Bow hunting I have encountered bears and have had to draw my pistol more than once. fortunately, I have never had to use it but I felt that I has some say in my treatment, and stood my ground. (This may have been a deciding factor in there decision to retreat).

If a person choses to not carry a weapon, that is his/her choice. but the consequences of this decision is also theirs.

Just My opinion.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Wyodog]

JE Custom - a permanent result is less important to me than than an immediate result. But I do belive there can be añ immediate result from a firearm or bear spray. I do agree that there is a big comfort factor if a bear is laying at your feet rather than still roaming around in the woods.

I carry a handgun every day of my life. When I am backpacking or scouting I carry a handgun and pepper spay if I'm in bear country. When I'm hunting I have a rifle and that's when the debate in my head starts. It goes like this.....damñ this pack is heavy, bear spray or hand gun? Well I have a rifle...

At that point I make a choice and go with it. This year I went into country with rare bear sightings and because of the distance from water I left the hangup and spray behind because I had to carry a bunch of water up the mountain and I didn't want the extra weight. I saw both grizzly and black bear sign. The was successful and on the way out of the backcountry I had a heavy load of everything I carried in plus a deer. My rifle was lashed to my pack and I smelled like deer meat and blood. All went OK but I thought a lot about this thead and the discussions here on the miles I walked. I realized I had compromised my safety by not bringing protection other than my rifle and because of a heavy pack and fatigue I doubted my ability to put up much offence in an encounter with a bear. Could I pull off a good shot with a handgun quickly? Could I get to bear spray and operate it? Those were my questions to myself. I can tell you I will have something on belt from now on. I am loosing confidence in bear spray because of shelf life issues and documented failures that I have learned of.

I have been choosing the handgun most of the time these days but being prepared and knowing how to use what you bring is an important first step to protecting your self.

 

[KillerBee]

JE Custom - a permanent result is less important to me than than an immediate result. But I do belive there can be añ immediate result from a firearm or bear spray. I do agree that there is a big comfort factor if a bear is laying at your feet rather than still roaming around in the woods.

I carry a handgun every day of my life. When I am backpacking or scouting I carry a handgun and pepper spay if I'm in bear country. When I'm hunting I have a rifle and that's when the debate in my head starts. It goes like this.....damñ this pack is heavy, bear spray or hand gun? Well I have a rifle...

At that point I make a choice and go with it. This year I went into country with rare bear sightings and because of the distance from water I left the hangup and spray behind because I had to carry a bunch of water up the mountain and I didn't want the extra weight. I saw both grizzly and black bear sign. The was successful and on the way out of the backcountry I had a heavy load of everything I carried in plus a deer. My rifle was lashed to my pack and I smelled like deer meat and blood. All went OK but I thought a lot about this thead and the discussions here on the miles I walked. I realized I had compromised my safety by not bringing protection other than my rifle and because of a heavy pack and fatigue I doubted my ability to put up much offence in an encounter with a bear. Could I pull off a good shot with a handgun quickly? Could I get to bear spray and operate it? Those were my questions to myself. I can tell you I will have something on belt from now on. I am loosing confidence in bear spray because of shelf life issues and documented failures that I have learned of.

I have been choosing the handgun most of the time these days but being prepared and knowing how to use what you bring is an important first step to protecting your self.

Where I hunt in Grizz country, grizzlies are protected and there are way to many of them and they are now coming to the sound of a gun because they know there may be a dead animal on the ground.

If you were skinning a moose or an elk knowing that, which would you prefer to have beside you while you are taking care of your animal a defender or a can of pepper spray?

 

[J E Custom]

One other point.
How often do we see a determined or doped up criminal un effected by pepper sprays or Taser's and continuing to fight. I don't see police armed only with pepper spray. I think non lethal mean are great and when used properly work well, But when they fail to stop the aggression, a more permanent solution is/may sometimes be necessary.

Just saying.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Pdvdh]

I choose and prepare to implement under the Colin Powell rules of war --->>> Overwhelming Force. Any close range threatening confrontation, I respect the bear's life even less than they respect mine. I give no bear any benefit of the doubt unless, and until, it's hauling *** away from me.

 

[Wyodog]

I choose and prepare to implement under the Colin Powell rules of war --->>> Overwhelming Force. Any close range threatening confrontation, I respect the bear's life even less than they respect mine. I give no bear any benefit of the doubt unless, and until, it's hauling *** away from me.

Totally agree other than I find dead at my feet acceptable as well.