Annealing vs not?

For me its more about accuracy and case life is second. If you run tight to your rifle's pressure limit you will loose cases to primer pockets no matter what you do. In recent years I have loaded for several 300 WSMs, 2 7mm LRMs, and my new (2 years old now) 6.5 PRC. The point of my reloading is squeezing as much accuracy as possible from the rifles because I primarily use them for long to really long range hunting on Coues deer (small target at 700 yards). They also get a chance at Elk every couple of years where accuracy doesn't need to be as tight. Anyway, without annealing at least every other shot I notice poor neck tension consistency sneaking in which always has led to accuracy suffering for me. So for me its trying to make every round as consistently accurate as the next for long range practice and use on game. There are several very good less expensive annealing machines on the market right now. One thing to not overlook if you are getting into annealing is to get a good case cleaner to prep cases. I currently use a Hornady Ultrasonic for annealing prep. If you get an Ultrasonic use distilled water, it minimizes spotting on the cases. The nice thing is these type of cleaners can clean a lot of other items beside cases. Have fun reloading!
Vance, if you don't mind my asking, what type of cleaning solution do you use and what's your main purpose for ultrasonic cleaning, is it for general cleaning or specifically degreasing? In your routine is cleaning and annealing done after case prep and just before loading?
 
Lets talk annealing. Lets say on like a 308 vs 7RM vs 6.5 PRC if you annealed every other shot how many more shot per round would you likely get? I know it would very but what you think the avg would be. Gun shop guy said in like 28 nosler you are only going to get 4 or 5 shots no matter what. 6.5 PRC 6-8 so he doesn't worry about annealing those rounds. But 308 if you anneal 60 shots is possible? I've never annealed I've loaded 270 at least 20 shots and still shot great groups, but in 7RM I always go new at 8 shots. Would annealing get me more shots in 6.5 PRC and 7RM?
Annealing is nothing to do with case life, it's to do with consistency of neck tension,one of the most important things when trying to achieve long range accuracy.Case life is determined by charge weight and head space.
 
Lets talk annealing. Lets say on like a 308 vs 7RM vs 6.5 PRC if you annealed every other shot how many more shot per round would you likely get? I know it would very but what you think the avg would be. Gun shop guy said in like 28 nosler you are only going to get 4 or 5 shots no matter what. 6.5 PRC 6-8 so he doesn't worry about annealing those rounds. But 308 if you anneal 60 shots is possible? I've never annealed I've loaded 270 at least 20 shots and still shot great groups, but in 7RM I always go new at 8 shots. Would annealing get me more shots in 6.5 PRC and 7RM?
Ok I anneal so can give you data on what I shoot only as every round is different, every caliber is different, every brand of brass is different and it all depends on how you load! There is no one size fits all and there is no general assumption! That said! In general I can on average extend my brass life in magnum rounds by 4 reloads if loaded normally! My non-magnum rounds by up to 6 reloads. Also annealing every other time will put too much stress on the brass as you are only annealing the neck and shoulder and not the whole case which also creates two dissimilar qualities of metal eventually. I anneal every three reloads, why! Because I have kept good logs over the past 20 years and that is what works! The primary stress or fracture points when annealing move from the shoulder and neck to the primer pocket and base, especially if it's a belted cartridge! Always is a pick to check case wall deterioration internally! I currently use an AMP annealer which I have found to be the most reliable! I have also found going through my log book that RWS seems to be on average the most durable brass, even over Lapua and ADG, remember I said most durable not most consistent!!!!
 
I have had the same questions and have no firm conclusions other than the annealing equipment can be expensive. I have decided to just live with what I have and not anneal
Like you, I would love to aneal but find the equipment a bit pricey. During these "trying times of Covid", I'm not shooting as often mainly due to the primer shortage. IF and when the shortages are resolved, I will probably get into it. I really think the AMP machine is the most effective but really pricey especially for multiple calibers. Way back in the dim recesses of my memory, I remember annealing my 25-06 brass, sized from LC military surplus 30-06 brass. It was the old Templaw and drill method, effective but time-consuming. When things settle down if ever, I'd think I'd try the Annealeez |system. I did see some real case life improvement on the 25-06 brass, finally retired when the necks started to split after more than a dozen load cycles.
 
Lets talk annealing. Lets say on like a 308 vs 7RM vs 6.5 PRC if you annealed every other shot how many more shot per round would you likely get? I know it would very but what you think the avg would be. Gun shop guy said in like 28 nosler you are only going to get 4 or 5 shots no matter what. 6.5 PRC 6-8 so he doesn't worry about annealing those rounds. But 308 if you anneal 60 shots is possible? I've never annealed I've loaded 270 at least 20 shots and still shot great groups, but in 7RM I always go new at 8 shots. Would annealing get me more shots in 6.5 PRC and 7RM?
We anneal to get more consistent neck tension. Yes, it does help with the brass life. But it's a race with the primer pockets where annealing has no effect. With most brass you will more likely start to loose primer pocket tension before you see over working of the neck shoulder area, thus whether you anneal or not, your brass has the same life span.
 
I have had the same questions and have no firm conclusions other than the annealing equipment can be expensive. I have decided to just live with what I have and not anneal
corsair4360: Not to change the subject but I just got an EP Integrations 2.0 annealing machine for $268 shipped. I love it and it is very easy to set up for different cases. Check them out on YouTube. I was like you (as for the high pricing) until I found this machine. I never annealed before this.
 
Vance, if you don't mind my asking, what type of cleaning solution do you use and what's your main purpose for ultrasonic cleaning, is it for general cleaning or specifically degreasing? In your routine is cleaning and annealing done after case prep and just before loading?
This is a longer answer than you likely wanted, sorry. As far as rifle cases I use the One Shot Cartridge Case Solution from Hornady. I only clean cases with this system for annealing. On my off cycle I use a vibration standard corn media system. The sonic seems to do a good job of getting all the exterior carbon off before applying heat to the brass. This keeps the exterior, which touches the dies, as smooth as possible. It does remove a lot from the insides and the primer pockets as well so the cases turn out in very good condition. The carbon in the necks doesn't seem to ever completely come out and I haven't really been able to notice any practical issues with the in-neck carbon, so I ignore it. Hornady has a gun part cleaner that works great on muzzle brakes and pistol parts etc. You can also clean things like jewelry for example with the right cleaning solution. My cleaner has a heat setting but I have never used it. Might be good for really greasy stuff but it will dis-color firearm brass. If you are going to use a water based cleaner I would strongly suggest using Distilled water. I keep 2-3 gallons in my reloading room, it cost like 0.60 a gallon. It usually takes almost a whole gallon for me to clean 1 batch of 50-70 cases (about what fits in the machine) because I do 2 cleaning cycles (with solution) and 1 rinse cycle (no solution). I'm lucky I have a toilet in my reloading room so I can dump the dirty solution down the toilet when switching solution. Make sure to take out the case basket before dumping solution or you'll be picking brass out of the toilet, don't ask.
 
Lets talk annealing. Lets say on like a 308 vs 7RM vs 6.5 PRC if you annealed every other shot how many more shot per round would you likely get? I know it would very but what you think the avg would be. Gun shop guy said in like 28 nosler you are only going to get 4 or 5 shots no matter what. 6.5 PRC 6-8 so he doesn't worry about annealing those rounds. But 308 if you anneal 60 shots is possible? I've never annealed I've loaded 270 at least 20 shots and still shot great groups, but in 7RM I always go new at 8 shots. Would annealing get me more shots in 6.5 PRC and 7RM?
See Basinmans post about the EP Integrations 2.0 annealing machine for $268 shipped, looks like a great machine at a very affordable price. I looks similar to my Annealez which I love.
 
I anneal everything I have from 17 Rem to 375 H&H. I get double if not triple the lifetimes out of my brass. I even anneal my 30-30 brass. the brass manufacturer I get the best and worst results from annealing is R-P. I do not know why but I do. The best caliber with the best benefits from annealing is my 30-30 and 30-06. the least return I get from annealing is my 17 Rem.
My average reloads on my 30-30 and 30-06 are 25 reloads. the 17 Rem is 3 reloads with or without annealing.
most of my other calibers I get between 10 and 12 reloads from any piece of brass I own. even the Nosler, Lapua, and Norma.
the biggest benefit I have when I anneal is that my brass is more uniform when I size and I get better accuracy as well.
 
I began annealing cases in 2000. I was having trouble with necks splitting in 3 to 5 firing. (it was the old water in the pan system. It work just fine.) I also started cutting my necks for thickness at the same time. I generally push my reloads to the max, with flat primes. That for 3 things, down range drop, accuracy or bullet path and windage. After annealing my case my case life extended until the primer pocket open up which was somewhere 10 to 12 firing. Once I develop a pet load for my rifle, that what I stay with. I am using them of hunting only so it doesn't require much ammo after develop load. Most of my ammo is at all about the same velocity, which translate into almost the same path flight with each cartridge. deflection is the biggest thing with the wind. Or that how I see it. I am not into heavy bullets either, but I don't really shoot anything beyond 500 to 600 yards.
Now that I am changing some of the ways, on reloading. More attention on neck tension, case volume weight, instead of just case weight, I will anneal each time. Check case length more accurately after each firing and bring them back to same length. Turn necks for that caliber, and and leave that set, and not change it after that, unless I can gain some additional accuracy by changing the thickness of the neck. One rifle being built for me will be a reduce neck dia. So everything will have to be cut. That is .013 thickness over bullet dia. That states my ideal on reloading and shooting.
 
Lets talk annealing. Lets say on like a 308 vs 7RM vs 6.5 PRC if you annealed every other shot how many more shot per round would you likely get? I know it would very but what you think the avg would be. Gun shop guy said in like 28 nosler you are only going to get 4 or 5 shots no matter what. 6.5 PRC 6-8 so he doesn't worry about annealing those rounds. But 308 if you anneal 60 shots is possible? I've never annealed I've loaded 270 at least 20 shots and still shot great groups, but in 7RM I always go new at 8 shots. Would annealing get me more shots in 6.5 PRC and 7RM?
I believe that you would extend the life of brass however no telling how long. I believe the true benefit of annealing is consistent neck tension. When you say you have shot those 270 round many times with no annealing and shot great still, I agree with that however if you extend that out to 700,800,900, or 1000 yards say, I believe you would be all over the board. I believe that because your es/sd numbers would be all over the place due to inconsistent neck tension. There are all kinds of vids on YouTube of guys testing different neck tension with same loads and their velocities are all over the board. Which again would not change much at 100,200 ect but when you extend that out you will see it. In my opinion, which is Worth what ya paid for it, neck tension is the MOST important variable in an accurate round. So why not do everything in your power to stay consistent.
 
I would like to quench a myth once and for all.
Brass DOES NOT benefit from quenching after being heated, it does absolutely NOTHING to the brass grain structure.
Copper, the main ingredient of brass, does not HARDEN from quenching and, in fact, is rather difficult to harden in manufacturing processes. The ductility is the reason we use copper and it's alloys like brass.

Cheers.
 
I get a lot of life from 300 WSM with annealing....I'm on about 10 times with quite a few brass. I did the first 6 without annealing....started finding weird holes at base of the neck and necks quit sizing predictably. now the same brass after culling the ones with holes and annealing seem like new.

Full power max plus loads. Winchester brass.
 
I anneal when I start to see a difference of gas bleed on the outside of the case necks and this is of course dependent on brands as well as calibers.
I load for accuracy however I am not a beach rest shooter so I am annealing for case life first and if I achieve better accuracy that's a bonus. This has definitely worked for me with my 300Win for case life and I have found that the only exception so far is Sako brass (full power 6.5x55SE handloads) as it seems to be harder than US manufactured brass so these get done every second loading.
 
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