Lets talk annealing. Lets say on like a 308 vs 7RM vs 6.5 PRC if you annealed every other shot how many more shot per round would you likely get? I know it would very but what you think the avg would be. Gun shop guy said in like 28 nosler you are only going to get 4 or 5 shots no matter what. 6.5 PRC 6-8 so he doesn't worry about annealing those rounds. But 308 if you anneal 60 shots is possible? I've never annealed I've loaded 270 at least 20 shots and still shot great groups, but in 7RM I always go new at 8 shots. Would annealing get me more shots in 6.5 PRC and 7RM?
Annealing vs not?
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corsair4360
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I have had the same questions and have no firm conclusions other than the annealing equipment can be expensive. I have decided to just live with what I have and not anneal
Just anneal every two loads not every one. If you do it right you will get better accuracy and life out of the cases, but you also have to do everthing else with the cases. right loads, sizing, triming, turning, ect.
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Annealing isn't going to help primer pocket life, which I assume is the culprit of short case life.
No other reason for cases to die, unless a poor chamber, poor load development, and/or poor sizing plan.
I have at least several cartridges with 30-80 reloads so far, and only initial annealing.
No other reason for cases to die, unless a poor chamber, poor load development, and/or poor sizing plan.
I have at least several cartridges with 30-80 reloads so far, and only initial annealing.
lancetkenyon
Well-Known Member
30-80 reloads on brass??? Holy cow. That is amazing.
I anneal every firing. No matter the cartridge.
Have some 7RM brass with 11 firings. But I have about 300 pcs of brass, some with as little as twice fired.
I have about 430pcs of 6.5SLR brass, lost about 20 over time to primer pockets. Some have 10 firings, some have 5. 2800 rounds on the first barrel, another 500ish on the new barrel.
I have at least 200pcs of brass for every rifle I own, so getting 30-80 firings would take several barrels.
I currently don't anneal because I run my cases for all they are worth most of the time and primer pockets go before I have issues with the neck & shoulder getting brittle. I'm going to have to neck down some cases from 6.5 to 6mm. Some of them new & some once fired. So, is it going to be a whole lot easier if I anneal this brass? I assume it will.
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
I make 50 cases for every gun. Sometimes it takes ~80 to make those 50.
The rest of them sit waiting in boxes/bags, collecting dust I suppose.
I measure pre-seating forces with an instrumented mandrel die, and so far have not needed to re-anneal anything.
The cartridge cases I have over 80 reloads on is with a 26wssm Imp. That has a fitted chamber & custom dies. The only sizing they see is 1thou shoulder bump just for good measure. No neck or body sizing.
All my other chambers are complemented with custom dies. None of them FL dies, just bushing-bump dies.
What I've found is that the most consistent annealing -is none
I can think of nothing wrong with frequent annealing, if really good (like dip annealing).
But honestly, if you have to anneal just to keep cases in service, you're doing some bad things in reloading.
The rest of them sit waiting in boxes/bags, collecting dust I suppose.
I measure pre-seating forces with an instrumented mandrel die, and so far have not needed to re-anneal anything.
The cartridge cases I have over 80 reloads on is with a 26wssm Imp. That has a fitted chamber & custom dies. The only sizing they see is 1thou shoulder bump just for good measure. No neck or body sizing.
All my other chambers are complemented with custom dies. None of them FL dies, just bushing-bump dies.
What I've found is that the most consistent annealing -is none
I can think of nothing wrong with frequent annealing, if really good (like dip annealing).
But honestly, if you have to anneal just to keep cases in service, you're doing some bad things in reloading.
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Rardoin
Well-Known Member
Brass neck life, without annealing, will largely depend on the amount of work hardening done during the sizing process. If you are using SAAMI spec dies that shrink the neck down a large amount, say 0.012"+ over fired size, and pull it back out 0.006" or so it will work harden the necks earlier and increase the chance of splitting. Periodic annealing can restore the malleability and increase neck life. As Mikecr pointed out, primer pocket loosening will get you first in any cartridge run on the upper end of pressure. I have some 6.5 x55 BJAI brass, that I annealed multiple times throughout their life, that have near 30 firings. I also have some of the same that were only sized in a Warner die insert that bought the neck directly (no expander ball or mandrel needed) to the final diameter down from the fired diameter (0.005" change) and were never annealed and have 20+ firings and no split necks short of one that separated at the N/S junction from too deep of a cut from neck turning.
MagnumManiac
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That's interesting Mikecr, I anneal my Como brass after every firing and lose very few cases to neck splits. Haven't lost a single Lapua 300WM piece I bought in'88 to splits or loose pockets, lost count on number of firings, but 80 rounds per match per weekend.
Wish I had had a fitted chamber, no brass expansion sounds like a good idea.
Cheers.
Wish I had had a fitted chamber, no brass expansion sounds like a good idea.
Cheers.
Rick Richard
Well-Known Member
I anneal every other firing for the most part and cases usually fail to be reloaded when the primer pockets go.
vancewalker007
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For me its more about accuracy and case life is second. If you run tight to your rifle's pressure limit you will loose cases to primer pockets no matter what you do. In recent years I have loaded for several 300 WSMs, 2 7mm LRMs, and my new (2 years old now) 6.5 PRC. The point of my reloading is squeezing as much accuracy as possible from the rifles because I primarily use them for long to really long range hunting on Coues deer (small target at 700 yards). They also get a chance at Elk every couple of years where accuracy doesn't need to be as tight. Anyway, without annealing at least every other shot I notice poor neck tension consistency sneaking in which always has led to accuracy suffering for me. So for me its trying to make every round as consistently accurate as the next for long range practice and use on game. There are several very good less expensive annealing machines on the market right now. One thing to not overlook if you are getting into annealing is to get a good case cleaner to prep cases. I currently use a Hornady Ultrasonic for annealing prep. If you get an Ultrasonic use distilled water, it minimizes spotting on the cases. The nice thing is these type of cleaners can clean a lot of other items beside cases. Have fun reloading!
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
You couldn't get away with it for a 300wm.
The cartridge has to be well improved and a smaller/efficient capacity for cal.
You need enough breech support, as provided by enough barrel steel around the chamber, and coned bolt.
In 30cal this would maybe be a 30saum AI, with biggest barrel tenon practical (custom action).
Fitted, is ~1/2thou total clearance EVERYWHERE for NEW cases.
With this, the cases form to spring back from chamber with no sizing needed for reloading*.
So no trimming or annealing either. Just re-prime, charge, seat bullets & go.
*Shoulders should be at least 40deg to mitigate the need for bumping.
I went 35deg, and by the 12th reload cycle my headspace was getting tight. Bad because once you bump, you're stuck with that action going forward (memory).
I'm going to try 45deg shoulders for my next chamber.
Also, some length of neck sizing may be desired for tuning. This works even as fitted with slight mandrel & bushing sizing (less than work hardening).
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
I personally believe there is no more powerful ballistic attribute than accuracy.
But case life, and barrel life, can be significant to viable accuracy in the long run (for many).
Constant trimming and replacement of cases with lot to lot differences doesn't help.
Taking guns out of service for barrel changes never helps.
