Actions

[Wachsmann]

Does any one (gunsmith) ever check or validate the trueness or blueprinting ( measure the tolerances) of a custom ordered action like Stillers, Surgeon, or Definace etc. etc. before assembling it on a custom build rifle. Just curious. Thanks for any feedback.

 

[J E Custom]

Does any one (gunsmith) ever check or validate the trueness or blueprinting ( measure the tolerances) of a custom ordered action like Stillers, Surgeon, or Definace etc. etc. before assembling it on a custom build rifle. Just curious. Thanks for any feedback.

In my opinion, It is every Gunsmiths responsibility to check out every action before he starts any
custom build. Custom actions in general are true but It should still be checked to make sure.

Just because it is a "Custom Action" doesn't mean it's perfect. all actions are machined and things can happen. The one advantage of a custom action should be better quality control, but I have re barreled custom actions and found some that needed Blue printing. the problem could have been the Gunsmith that built the rifle or the action maker and he didn't check it assuming that it was true because it was Custom.

J E CUSTOM

 

[MudRunner2005]

In my opinion, It is every Gunsmiths responsibility to check out every action before he starts any
custom build. Custom actions in general are true but It should still be checked to make sure.

Just because it is a "Custom Action" doesn't mean it's perfect. all actions are machined and things can happen. The one advantage of a custom action should be better quality control, but I have re barreled custom actions and found some that needed Blue printing. the problem could have been the Gunsmith that built the rifle or the action maker and he didn't check it assuming that it was true because it was Custom.

J E CUSTOM

Bingo! I've had this conversation with my gunsmith before. He builds off of any/all kinds of actions. He said they almost ALL need some sort of final truing just to ensure the surface are as close to 100% straight as possible. He said some are better than others about it, but there are some that he's seen that were almost as far out as some factory mass-produced actions.

So for me...I'll just keep building off my cheap used 700 actions, and having him blueprint them.

 

[ShtrRdy]

I just recently went through this with a gunsmith installing a new barrel on a new Stiller action. He insisted on doing this. All looked good except for some light contact on one of the recoil lugs so he lapped the lugs in.

 

[just country]

morning, always have ur action trued. gun)

 

[J E Custom]

Just Thought I would add a question that I am ask all the time.

What Is Blue Printing ?

There are many different opinions on what blue printing is/should be and Maybe this will clear it up
to some degree.

First= A good inspection should be made so a plan for what needs to be done can be made (There is a definite order that should be followed for correcting any issues.

After the list of things are prioritized the work can proceed.

My list may be different than others and I may have missed something but here it is.

To simplify, I have not placed these things in any kind of order because the order may change based on the work required.

Bolt=
The bolt should be checked for any taper from one end to the other.
The diameter of the bolt should be measured and noted for later comparison to the action bore.
Locking lugs should be checked for square with the body of the bolt.
The bolt face also needs to be checked for square to the bolt body and flat. (Most are not)
The locking lugs should also be checked for surface contact % and finish.
If the surface contact is square but the finish is poor, Lapping can be done. (It should not be used to square the lugs).
The firing pin should be checked for fit to the firing pin hole in the bolt.
It should also be checked for protrusion.
The cocking piece should be checked for timing (Square to the trigger sear) for better function.
The firing pin should slip in and out of the bolt body without drag (Older firing springs tend to snake down the firing pin causing drag and reducing lock time)
Also the extractor should be checked for claw angle and engagement in the extractor groove of the brass.
The ejector plunger needs to be clean and free to move.
If everything is good or has been fixed a good cleaning and maybe polish or Jewelling is necessary.


Action=
The bore diameter should be checked against the bolt diameter for fit (I like .002 to .003 clearance)
The contact surfaces of the recoil lugs should be square to the bolt center line.
The action face should be checked for square to the bolt center line.(Most are not).
The Quality of the barrel to action threads should also be checked and chased or re threaded for fit and trueness.
Most factory action are not perfectly true on the outside or centered on the bolt center line but that doesn't matter because it is the action threads and bolt and action face that must be centered,(Some actions are shaped and it would be nearly impossible To true them on the outside(This is also the reason we push Bedding because it conforms to the shape of the action ).
While the action is set up for truing this is a good time to also check the scope base holes for center line correctness also.
Most good smiths also check the feed rails for fit and finish at this time.

I am sure I missed something, but I just wanted to explain what Blue printing involved and it's importance. If everything is as true as possible, And a quality barrel is chambered and installed correctly the rifle should function and shoot well.

In my opinion, It is the foundation for a good build.

J E CUSTOM

 

[shortgrass]

How many who buy a custom action are willing to pay a gunsmith for truing? Remember, most of the costs associated for truing is in the machine set-up. That same machine set-up is used for inspection of action "trueness". I have Mauser '98s that wear custom barrels, triggers and stocks, where the actions have had no more than a facing cut done to the front ring. They'll shoot 'bugholes' side by side with rifles built using modern made actions. I would submit that the heart of accuracy lies in a quality made barrel with a properly alined and sized chamber, firing quality ammo all secured in a properly bedded and fit stock, not forgetting a 'crisp' trigger. Best optics that you can afford only add positives to the rifle. An action really has to be badly 'skewed' to show negative results on 99% of hunting rifles. How much more are you willing to pay for results that may end up being 'unmeasurable' when you've already paid a premium for that custom action?

 

[Dgd6mm]

How many who buy a custom action are willing to pay a gunsmith for truing? Remember, most of the costs associated for truing is in the machine set-up. That same machine set-up is used for inspection of action "trueness". I have Mauser '98s that wear custom barrels, triggers and stocks, where the actions have had no more than a facing cut done to the front ring. They'll shoot 'bugholes' side by side with rifles built using modern made actions. I would submit that the heart of accuracy lies in a quality made barrel with a properly alined and sized chamber, firing quality ammo all secured in a properly bedded and fit stock, not forgetting a 'crisp' trigger. Best optics that you can afford only add positives to the rifle. An action really has to be badly 'skewed' to show negative results on 99% of hunting rifles. How much more are you willing to pay for results that may end up being 'unmeasurable' when you've already paid a premium for that custom action?

This sure does sum it up fast, quick, and in a hurry.

 

[J E Custom]

This sure does sum it up fast, quick, and in a hurry.

I'm one of those guys that leaves no stone un turned and attempt to make sure that everything is as good/perfect as I am able to make it.

In my "opinion" based on past results and experience an accurate rifle is the sum of all parts that are as near to perfect as possible. Leave one out and the accuracy degrades . (How much doesn't matter), it's just not as good as it could be.

Checking to see is everything is up to specification is not Blue printing it is checking. it is a means
of identifying a possible problem and then you deal with it.

I have seen the other method of "it's ok" or "that's close enough" and had to deal with it and based on what happens when you take the time, and check everything, the end results are always better.

I am retired and don't Smith for a living, so I have no ulterior motive to push Blue Printing to make more money. In fact I do it for friends and relatives and don't charge them any labor for building there rifle, just for parts. but I do a blue print on there action anyway because I believe it helps and for sure it seems to make the rifle more forgiving to different loads. I also always find something that is not to "MY" specifications. (AS GOOD AS I CAN MAKE IT) Can I measure what effect it will have on accuracy ? No. I just know that if I correct it, it will be one less thing that I have to worry about, and wonder if I should have corrected it.

It is a very simple to me, If I do everything that needs to be done and use the right parts, I know the rifle will shoot very good if I feed it good ammo. I don't question anyone else's beliefs or practices so they can do what they like and if they don't believe that a Custom action or any other action needs to be at least checked, that's ok. but no one will ever convince me that taking short cuts is ok and doing the absolute best you can will not pay off in the end.

This is not an argument, just my beliefs and I will continue to blue print every action regardless
of whether I get paid for it or not rather than risk a poor performing rifle. It is part of the build.

Just my opinion
J E CUSTOM