880" of elk in one pic.....

[rtv900]

Kirby,

I can't wait to see the finished work. I personally could care less if you did shoot them while tied to a fence post. I know you did not do that and you were up front with all of us. But if you did I would only be bummed that I didn't find the fence post before you. Who cares how you got them. You certainly dont have to defend yourself with the people here. If one or two have a problem with something and want to rag on you - who cares.

Seems like one or two can sure change the tone of a post that was supposed to be fun.

 

[Boss Hoss]

I guess I am just a bit confused why these elk have started such as ****in match. From even before the hunt, here on long range hunting, I made it painfully clear, made a point to in fact, that this was a trip to do nothing but field test the 338 Allen Xpress and the new 265 gr AT RBBT.

I commented on how large the area was we would be hunting, larger then many hunters cover in a week of hunting wild came and concerning whitetail deer, more ground then you would need for a lifetime of hunting.

The area is filled with extremely deep rocky draws filled with very heavy black timber with broken up areas on some of the properties.

I have never said these were wild elk, I have never claimed I was going on a wild elk hunt, I have never bitched about not getting into the B&C club with these animals, they are not possible entries, they qualify for the SCI "estate" records, not the "free Range" records although that is an interesting topic.

I know of several record listings in the "Free Range" listing that were killed on high fence properties smaller then the one I took my bull on.

That is besides the point, I know what this bull is, I knew what I was doing and I reported the exact details as they were, had no desire to mislead anyone on the subject and if some would have read my posts fully, there would have no problem at all with my posts.

Simply put, this was a field test and it worked very well. Anyone that has seen the video of this +1000 lb bull take the 265 gr AT RBBT through both lungs at 604 yards and only run 25 yards before falling to the ground simply can not believe that kind of performance without a major support bone being hit on impact.

Even the ranch owner was amazed as he had had many hunters bring out much larger caliber chamberings and have a hell of a time putting their bulls on the ground, including 375 H&H, 416 Rem Mags and 458 Lotts.

I think many get offended because they work their *** off to shoot wild elk that score half what this bull does and for some reason, they take offense to these bulls. I do not know why. I am not referring to Boss Hoss on this comment, more toward Nonya. If I recall he shot a fine bull and posted pics of it. I may be wrong but I think I remember that from him.

My question is why would he get offended because of these bulls. He may or may not have worked hard for his bull. I do not know. Was it a trophy bull, any legal bull, in my mind is a trophy. Why would you not be secure enough in yourself and the game you take so that two elk taken on a private hunting range offend the hell out of you. To the point you would directly attack the person that shot one of these animals.

Its like both of you assume I shot my bull tied up to a fence post and now am making up a story to make it sounds like it was on a wild hunt.

Anyway, just a bit confused what the reasoning for the attacks. They obviously are unfounded to anyone that has been following these posts. I have been 100% up front about the entire deal. The main reason for the post anyway was the performance results of the 338 Allen Xpress and the 265 gr AT RBBT.....

Just confused. Whenever you post on a public forum, you open yourself up to attack. I know that as well as anyone. I also know there are lot of guys out there that like the stories and pics and to read about new chamberings and bullets and their performance in the field or on the range. That is why I post because I am also one of these guys that like to read others results and experiments and the resulting field tests.

I feel there is an underlying issue with Nonya and Boss Hoss. I have contacted both through PM to try to resolve what problems they have with me personally because obviously these personal attacks are based on something. If they will be honest, and tell me at least I will respect them for that

Anyway, time for work.

I will post pics when the bulls are finished.

Kirby Allen(50)

I stand corrected and after corresponding via PM with Kirby furthermore understand. Whilst my view of "hunting" is pretty straight forward and black and white you could say I respect what he has done.

BTW those heads I would love to see with a rifle in my hand!!

Regards,

DWM

 

[Fiftydriver]

I would also like to add my feelings about hunting just to make things clear to everyone.

In my opinion, any game animal that is taken in the wild in an ethical(open for debate topic again), legal and efficent manner is an extremely high quality trophy no matter what the score, size or shape of the animal is.

In some instances a doe whitetail could be the ultimate trophy to a new hunter or even experienced hunter.

Any legal elk taken in the wild is more of a hunting trophy then either of the two bulls we took in Nebraska and that is my honest opinion and feeling on the matter.

Do I see these elk we took as livestock, no, some will and thats fine, I do not. I live in the heart of livestock country. These elk acted nothing like cattle but that is beyond the point. They are not wild elk and I never portrayed them to be that.

I hold our hunting heritage in the highest reguard but also realize that high fence hunting ranches serve a purpose and at times serve a cery critical purpose.

I once watched a filmed hunt with a handicapped young man and he took a 300" class bull on a private ranch. You could have not seen any difference if this had been a wild elk or a high fence elk from this young hunter.

Was this a wild elk, no, did it make a difference to this young hunter who would have never had a chance to shoot a wild elk in all reality, NO.

Just hope we can all realize that even though we may not agree with something in our own lives, that does not mean that specific thing does not have very important and real uses to others out there that we may not understand at the time.

Nuff said on the topic. I think things have been respectfully straightened out between Boss Hoss and myself and I thank him for taking the time to respond to my PM which was very respectful and reasonable.

Take care. These are just pics of elk, just want everyone to enjoy seeing them.

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[lerch]

When a person gives you the whole story upfront and his honest about it I just dont see how you can be ****y about it. Kirby was up front the whole time about the hunt and the nature of it. I saw too much of this same crap over at "the Fire" and it really just ****es me off, i see no reason to belittle someones trophy when they are honest about it.



Kirby, what the hell man!!???!?!!??! how come i aint seen a copy of this video yet

steve

 

[buffalorancher]

When I see these high fence arguments I hate reading them because they all end up the same way. Hunting is hunting to me. One thing that is always left out of the argument is the fact that these animals belong to somebody and reside on their private property. What these discussions are to me is some righteous hunter trying to tell a private property owner what they think you should or shouldn't be able to do on your own private property. If everybody would quit worrying about other's ethics the future of our sport would be much brighter.

 

[mikenc]

I can agree with lance but let me add.


Congrats guys, you guys are doing exactly what the anti's or PETA loves to see. In fighting and there is no opponent. Remember guys, ultimatly you are on the same team.

Regardless of how the animals were taken, let it go. If a person wants to call shooting a deer/elk in a 20x20 pen hunting, so be it. Maybe it is to that person. Remember, searching for the correct letter/key on a computer keyboard is hunting to some people. Let it go and hope the others will have the same sense as you. Remember, this really is not a compettion of who can kill the most or largest animal.


Mike Alford

 

[Pdvdh]

lerch, buffalorancher, mikenc +1

Boss Hoss - very good of you to modify your critique, in spite of your strong feelings about hunting methods.

And most importantly - Fiftydriver... I'd like to see that elk fall on video also.

 

[Coyboy]

Kirby has been up front about this Neb. hunt before he even went on it. I'm glad he posted the story and pics, it was very interesting. If you don't like hunting in a fence don't. If you want to harvest a large bull and save lots of money do it. I have been to CO mostly archery hunting, once with the rifle, in 10 years I shot 3 elk. I probably have close to $10,000 invested and not one head on the wall. 20 years from now I might be shooting one in a large pen, when I can no longer climb the hills.

Here in WI a fellow about 20 miles away raises elk. He is on 320 acres. His hunting pen is 80 acres dead flat and well wooded. The first 3 years he allowed bow hunters to hunt the pen for 5 days at $2500. One hunter at a time 10 cows and 2 nice bulls in the pen at all times. In 10 weeks only 3 elk were harvested. Deffinatly not a easy hunt. WI produces many of the top archery hunters in the country, this is testament to elks abillity to become very wary even when pen raised. Now he offers rifle hunts for $4500 because the bow hunters couldn't kill the elk and his herd needs reducing.

 

[Troutslayer]

Congrats guys, you guys are doing exactly what the anti's or PETA loves to see. In fighting and there is no opponent. Remember guys, ultimatly you are on the same team.

There goes the neighborhood. What does PETA have to do with it? Every time there is a debate on this board somebody plays the PETA card saying that this arguing is giving them ammunition and and causing seperation between us. Give it a break already. From a different point of view we might say "hunting caged animals is giving PETA more angles with which to attack hunters....". Not that I'm saying that, but it could be said.

I don't hunt high fence places because there are plenty of free ones in the woods already and that is my choice. Keeping wild animals in non-natural captivity breeds diseases like brucelosis which can then be transferred to wild animals through escapes or mixing over food. It also has the potential to muddy up the gene pool. I am concerned with the underlying message that the success of these types of operations is sending out: that hunting is something that can be totally privatized. This is already going on at an alarming rate and I think it's the single biggest threat to the future of the sport.

I hope I'm not offending anyone with my thoughts on the matter but that's how I feel.

 

[Fiftydriver]

Troutslayer,

No offense at all and you bring up some valid points.

I would like to point out however that the record keeping and testing that is required on these animals is nothing short of amazing. They are held to standards that make out cattle population look like something you would throw in the trash.

When we killed these bulls, we had to spend 30 minutes doing paperwork, taking tissue samples and all the required steps to submit what was needed on each bull.

When you kill a cow for meat, what tests are required to see if they are carrying any diseases? Pretty much if they can walk into the slaughter house and "look alright to me", they are put into the public food chain.

Where I live in north central Montana, we had many large elk "farms" in the area, the strict oversight that was placed on those businesses was amazing, FAR exceeding anything required for any other livestock.

Is that a good thing, certainly, just for the reasons you brought up but I assure you, these legit hunting ranches are held to animal quality standards far in excess of anything you would see with cattle ranchers.

Not to the debate about high fence hunting, your opinion is fine with me. If I had elk out my back door it would be alot easier as well. You are lucky to have that. I have nice whitetails and pronghorns, I am lucky to have that.

Thanks for your points and I agree, civil debate is never a bad thing.

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[gbp]

Kirby,

I, for one appreciate all of the effort and testing that goes into each of your wildcats. It is one of the reasons that I chose to have you build a 338am for me. With my work load I could never have the time nor the opportunity to work through all of the details that are involved in developement. It is reassureing to know that there has been a lot more than just chrono data and paper punching and speculation going into a custom rifle and the way it is to perform.

It is with anticipation that I look forward to my rifle being completed, and now I can add even more respect for your throughness in developement.

Best Regards
Geoff

 

[buffalorancher]

Troutslayer,
Living in Montana you should be better informed on Brucellosis. High fence hunting operations or any private ranches are not disease pools. The only incedence of Brucellosis in the US right now is the Greater Yellowstone area and you can thank the Federal Government and every other expert that has been involved in that mess. State and Federal agencies have long blamed CWD on game farms which is being refuted all the time. As Kirby stated, high fence operations are highly regulated and you have interstate shipment requirements for all livestock with regards to testing. If you have disease concerns it will probably originate in cattle or some other domestic livestock not a high fence operation. Where do you think Brucelosis originated? Your point on escapes and the gene pool is a valid one though. There is a lot of elk with red deer genes on game farms out there.

 

[mikenc]

There goes the neighborhood. What does PETA have to do with it? .

I apologize for bringing up that 4 letter word. It's just that what I have read or seen appears to be long beyond 2 people having a discussion about a certain type of hunting. I see 1 person constantly defending himself for what he has done and I simply don't think he should have to defend his actions to anyone.

Fact is PETA has nothing to do with the thread/posts/subject at hand yet, 2 people with the same passion/desire seem to be fighting over nothing. My Point is/was that with all the people against all of us, we do not need to devide and argue amungst each other.


Mike Alford

 

[MTNRaine]

to hunt or not to hunt, that is the question.

Congrats on the trophy Kirby, I hope someday I get a chance like that.
We must face it sooner or later and get over our differences because whether we like or not hunting behind high fences is going to become more common, if we don't get our ducks in a row there won't be any hunting period!! A trophy is a trophy. A trophy shot is a trophy earned. While I hold wild trophies in higher esteem, I dont diss anyone who shoots a high fence animal. And kirby has a point he needs to test his product before giving it to the public. As a resident of Montana access is very limited so chances of getting an elk are rare. I 've worked my butt off for many seasons and have yet to get an elk. So kirby does what he needs to prove his product so he can sell it to the public. Good job again kirby and keep it up.
Camerongun)