7mm saw vs 7mm-08 vs 7mm-08 AI

[SamuelBerryhill308]

Hello all I am researching and trying to decide what cartridges to build when I rebarrel one of my rifles. It will be a hunting rifle primarily but will be a target shooter as well. So with it being more of hunting rifle out of the the three cartridges listed above is the 7mm saw and 7mm-08 AI really worth the trouble over just sticking with the 7mm-08? I would like to shoot the heavier .284 caliber bullets and the factory twist on the 7mm-08 I have will not allow that and anything over 140 grain it does not like. Now I I've also thought about doing a 280 AI as well but from the reloading supplies I have the SA cartridges would be the better options. So like i would like to hear some input on these cartridges and what y'all's experiences is. I originally was going to build a 7mm saw but the more I people I've talk to and research I've dined says it does not live up to the claims from WTO on what they can get out of rifles chamber in the 7mm saw I understand that every rifle is different and people live in different places will effect this as well. I haven't talked to many people about the 7mm-08 AI but there seems to be a good many that run them on here and the regular 7mm-08 rem with great results anyways sorry for the long post but any info would help. Thanks and God bless

 

[std7mag]

I shot straight 7mm-08 for a couple of years before I reamed my chamber to 7mm-08AI.
Not a true Ackley Improved, as P.O. Ackley never did anything with the 308 family of cartridges.
PT&G list it as Improved 40°.
I have PT&G reamer with a 0.06" freebore.
Suits the 140-150gr bullets well.
140gr Berger VLD had a COAL of 2.898".
In my Stevens 200 with factory 22" sporter barrel my accuracy nodes were towards the high end of the powder charge.
RL17 was speed king at 2,916fps.
H414, IMR 4350 & Alliant PP2000MR all averages 2,832fps in the node for each.
PP2000MR was go to powder though with ES-6, SD-2.

Did I really gain anything from going to AI?
Not really.
I trim every reload (Lee case length gauges) and found while it still trimmed some, it wasn't taking off as much as the standard 7mm-08.
Looked cool at band camp, though!!

I think with throating it more, that the 160-168gr bullets would perform well with the AI.
Heavier than that, I really think your better suited to go 284Win or bigger casing.

 

[Sockeye66]

IMO, I'd stay standard 7-08 if you've already have the dies and brass, have the new barrel twisted a little faster and maybe go a little longer to shoot the 160gr class bullets. RL17, StaBall, and Ramshot Hunter will get you in the 2700-2800 fps range, guess it depends on how far your hunting range limit is.

 

[Hydra6]

"I would like to shoot the heavier .284 caliber bullets and the factory twist on the 7mm-08 I have will not allow that and anything over 140 grain it does not like." If you rebarrel to get the twist you want and have a short action - I would do the 7mm SAW. If you are not rebarreling may as well stick with 7-08. I love my 280AI but it requires a long action - if I wanted near 280AI performance out of a short action I would do 7 SAW. Factory 7 SAW brass is available from Alpha too.

 

[jjmp]

I've yet to own any ai case , I've always thought longer barrel and I'll get the speed ,price goes up on no standard dies. Factory's are going to always be lacking ,unless it's trendy,so think outside the box faster twists,1-9 will stabilize a 180 but in a 708 it's hurting your case capacity,twist it1-8 ,but have it chambered to shoot longer bullets and your fine . You still might loose some speed but that's acceptable,what's not a compromise. Smaller cases like smaller engines work harder than bigger ones . The 7 rum short has more room and it competes well against to bigger brother the 7 mm rem-mag ,it and the .284 wcf should be quite the race. Don't forget their action are sometimes long ,sometimes short ,depends how the owner wants it . Clear at mud lol , but a compromise it still is choose wisely and read all you can cheers .

 

[std7mag]

Still don't need to twist it faster than say a 1:9 unless your shooting the 197gr Sierra's or a long heavy mono.

Throat it out to fit the bullet. Some Staball, Hunter, or N555 should do well for you.
That and at least a 30" barrel. Lol

My 1:10 Weatherby stabilizes a 180gr bullet.

 

[tydaws]

I think it really just boils down to what you want to do. As Hydra6 mentioned, if you are going to re-barrel anyway to get setup to shoot the heavies (barrel twist, freebore, etc.), I'd go ahead and go the 7 SAW route.

I have a 7 SAW II that was built by Clayton & team at WTO. It is a Bartlein 8.5 twist finished at 24". I'm getting 2841 fps with the 160 Accubond & Alpha SRP brass. I worked up that load pretty quick to get prepped for a NM elk hunt & didn't test a whole lot of load combos. Now that the hunt is over, I'm going to go back to the bench and test some 180 eldm loads, per Clayton's recommendation.

If you have questions, call Clayton at WTO. Based on my firsthand experience, he is more than happy to answer questions and discuss what will be best for the customer based on their criteria and goals. He is also as good a guy as anyone could ever hope to do business with. He is a big fan of the 7mm-08 too & shot it for years before developing the 7mm SAW.

 

[QuietTexan]

I have all three, there's really nothing one does that the others can't also do. I have barrels ranging from a 14" XP-100 out to a 26" rifle, so velocities are more dependent on length that capacity for me so far. They're all turn-key cartridges that dies exist for, nothing special to do for any of them except load and shoot.

I might give a slight edge to the SAW since the Alpha brass is fully formed, and WTO sells Redding Type S dies.

7-08 AI would take the first shot to pop it out, NBD to me but one small tick mark against it vs the SAW.

7-08 is nothing special to me me in general, but I shoot very few SAAMI chambers - almost everything I make is improved in at least the "AI" sense of the word. Standard stuff is boring. But I couldn't pass up a Kimber 84M that is a fantastic little ultra light rifle.

I got the SAW II reamer with the longer throat, it'll probably be too long to mag feed the longest 7mm bullets from a short action but there are enough lighter bullets in 7mm for these standard bolt face cases. If I want to launch195 Bergers then 7SS, 7RUM, 28 Nosler, etc are better platforms IMO.

 

[akmtnhnt]

If the 7-08 doesn't have what you need, going to srp brass and overpressuring it to get speed isn't the most ideal way forward IMO. Just step up to 284win.

 

[806guns]

I built a 7mm SAW just do it! Mine is a 24" 1:8 twist Preferred Barrel Blanks Remage Prefit. Shooting 162 eldm with a simple load of varget. 5 shots to sight in and the 6th shot was on a aoudad. I have decided i liked it more than my 7mm prc. Sold the prc barrel. Alpha has a lot of brass right now. WTO has dies.

 

[SamuelBerryhill308]

Thank you everyone for the insight. I'm still trying to figure out which one to build. I did forget to mention i will be using a tikka action so i can swap out the mag and bolt stock to allow for loading longer bullets and such when need be

 

[Elkeater]

Morning. I went with a 7-08ai on my last rifle. It's my go to hunting rifle. I shoot 140gr absolute hammers over varget. Or 162gr eld-x over staball6.5. It's got a 24" 8 twist barrel and the 140s are doing 3003 fps. Haven't chronographed the 162s but based on a quick shot drop they are doing right about 2825. I haven't had to trim brass yet. Brass was easy to fireform with some cheap 120gr bullets and factory ammo can still be used in a pinch if needed. When this barrel is shot out I'll probably just do another 7-08ai.

 

[tydaws]

Thank you everyone for the insight. I'm still trying to figure out which one to build. I did forget to mention i will be using a tikka action so i can swap out the mag and bolt stock to allow for loading longer bullets and such when need be

That changes things. Since you are in a position such that mag length is no issue on the Tikka and assuming you want max performance out of the 7mm-08 size case, I'd probably go with the 7mm-08 AI, custom throated for whatever bullet you are wanting to run. That is assuming that you don't mind fire forming. If you don't want to fire form, the 7 SAW gets the nod (this is exactly why I went 7 SAW, range time can be quite limited with career, family, kid sports, etc.). The AI with a long throat will be about the most you can get out of the 7mm-08 parent case.

If you're still wanting more performance, with the long action option, a long throated 284 or 284 shehane may be worth a look. However, I'd recommend talking to someone that knows more than me about getting the 284 to feed in a Tikka. May not be in issue, I just don't know.

Sounds like a fun project!

 

[Justice1327]

I put my 284 in a medium action and it works great. I would go 7SAW.