7mm RM 168 berger VS 180 HVLD

[Tall]

I have been shooting the 168 Berger Hunting VLD and I am curious about the 180 Hunting VLD. I am shooting at 3022 MV on the 168's.

I am curious if I can get better performance out of a 180 Grain bullet as far as long range ability out to 1000 yards. Is 12 grains really going to make much difference?

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I have been shooting the 168 Berger Hunting VLD and I am curious about the 180 Hunting VLD. I am shooting at 3022 MV on the 168's.

I am curious if I can get better performance out of a 180 Grain bullet as far as long range ability out to 1000 yards. Is 12 grains really going to make much difference?

I would shoot the one that shoots best in your rifle. That said if they both shoot good. I would pick the 180. When it comes to hunting, the heavy for cal Bergers are the best choice for performance. Also the 180 has a good BC advantage making it slightly better ballistically. Not a lot of diff between the 2, but IMO bigger is better even if it's only slightly better.

 

[tbrice23]

Brian Litz had a great paper on 168 vs 180 vld. Tried to post a link but I cant pull it up! Basically the BC gives only slight advantage but you can try to do a search for the article Berger 7MM VLD Bullets.

 

[stomp442]

The difference figures out to be about 3" of wind drift in favor of the 180 but the energy numbers are very close due to the higher velocity of the 168. The 168 also offers a slight trajectory advantage as well so it really boils down to if you think that 3" of wind drift is worth while for you.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

The difference figures out to be about 3" of wind drift in favor of the 180 but the energy numbers are very close due to the higher velocity of the 168. The 168 also offers a slight trajectory advantage as well so it really boils down to if you think that 3" of wind drift is worth while for you.

With say a MV of 3000 and BC .617 the 168 gets to 1000 yds with 1668 fps and 1037 KE.

With an MV of 2900 fps and a BC of .659 the 180 gets to 1000 yds with 1667 fps and 1111 KE

Same down range velocity and 7% more KE

Not a big difference, but why not step up?

 

[stomp442]

Why not? Well to me that small gain is really not worth the time and components needed to develop a new load and ballistic table if I already have a load with the 168s that shoot well. What ever is hit on the receiving end really isn't going to notice a 74 ft lbs difference. If I was shooting competition I would vote for the 180s slight wind advantage but for the sake of what we are talking about the 168 is getting it done just as well.

 

[blksno]

You have to consider the likelyhood that your rifle may not shoot the best accuracy at a "best case scenario" muzzle velocity.

My 7mm Rem Mag was shooting the best at a velocity of 3030 with 168 VLDs....a 20 round average of .3 MOA. I was almost dead set on not changing anything.

The same rifle is now shooting the 180 VLDs at nearly the exact same POI, and group size at a confirmed mv of 3105.

I'll be using both loads and bullet availability will be the deciding factor, but it's not hard to see what one I would choose.
In my scenario with a full value 10mph wind...the 180s offer 7" less wind drift at 1000 yds...but an additional 267 lbs of ke and 2 MOA less drop.

How your rifle will respond to each bullet is what should make the difference.

 

[PowellSixO]

Also remember that Berger recommends different barrel twists for each bullet. I could not get the 180's to shoot out of my rifle with a 9.5" twist. Well I could, but I couldn't ever shoot moa out of the rifle consistently. Switched to the 168's, and I'm shooting sub .75 moa on the regular. Just thought I would throw that out there seeing you didn't provide any specifics about your rifle. Berger recommends 10:1 or faster on the 168's and 9:1 on the 180's. They were pretty much right on the money from what I experienced.

 

[Tall]

You have to consider the likelyhood that your rifle may not shoot the best accuracy at a "best case scenario" muzzle velocity.

My 7mm Rem Mag was shooting the best at a velocity of 3030 with 168 VLDs....a 20 round average of .3 MOA. I was almost dead set on not changing anything.

The same rifle is now shooting the 180 VLDs at nearly the exact same POI, and group size at a confirmed mv of 3105.

I'll be using both loads and bullet availability will be the deciding factor, but it's not hard to see what one I would choose.
In my scenario with a full value 10mph wind...the 180s offer 7" less wind drift at 1000 yds...but an additional 267 lbs of ke and 2 MOA less drop.

How your rifle will respond to each bullet is what should make the difference.

That is very impressive, I would like to know your load recipe for getting 3105 FPS. I would have thought the 180 GR. would go slower out of the shoot. Did you have any signs of high pressure?

 

[MudRunner2005]

Also remember that Berger recommends different barrel twists for each bullet. I could not get the 180's to shoot out of my rifle with a 9.5" twist. Well I could, but I couldn't ever shoot moa out of the rifle consistently. Switched to the 168's, and I'm shooting sub .75 moa on the regular. Just thought I would throw that out there seeing you didn't provide any specifics about your rifle. Berger recommends 10:1 or faster on the 168's and 9:1 on the 180's. They were pretty much right on the money from what I experienced.

It has alot to do with the individual gun, too...Because my A-Bolt II 7RM shoots the 180's fine, and it has a 9.5 twist (although I normally shoot the 168 VLD's out of it, since that's what I use for hunting). My old Rem 700 Sendero SF 7mmSTW has a 9.25 twist, and it loves the 180's.

Also, there's freaks of nature that defy explaination...Like my Rem 700 5R MilSpec 24" .308 Win.....It has the 5R 11.25" twist barrel, and it absolutely LOVES the Berger 210 VLD's...

I wish I could explain some of these things, but I can't, because they're not supposed to work right at all in theory and on paper by proven ballistics....Yet, somehow they just defy nature and it just works.

 

[Tall]

Also remember that Berger recommends different barrel twists for each bullet. I could not get the 180's to shoot out of my rifle with a 9.5" twist. Well I could, but I couldn't ever shoot moa out of the rifle consistently. Switched to the 168's, and I'm shooting sub .75 moa on the regular. Just thought I would throw that out there seeing you didn't provide any specifics about your rifle. Berger recommends 10:1 or faster on the 168's and 9:1 on the 180's. They were pretty much right on the money from what I experienced.

I believe my 7mm Remington mag Vanguard by weatherby is a 9.5 twist.

 

[MudRunner2005]

That is very impressive, I would like to know your load recipe for getting 3105 FPS. I would have thought the 180 GR. would go slower out of the shoot. Did you have any signs of high pressure?

Yeah, me too....Because my 7mm STW is pushing them at 2,9xx-3,000 with a moderate load of H1000, and I'm getting pressure signs...