6.5 Creedmoor: Maximum Lethal Range for Whitetail

[FEENIX]

Thank you I've always used 1800 fps/1000 ke as a baseline but I've been reading that these newer long range bullets that have good expansion well below 1800 fps can be lethal even below 1000 lbs of KE on whitetail.

"My" unwritten rule is 1000 FT-LBS for deer and 1500 FT-LBS for elk and the minimum velocity (i.e., 1800 FPS) for the bullet to expand effectively at the point of impact. If you can propel the 140 Berger VLD at 2700 FPS MV (3300' altitude), it's a 700 yarder set-up ...

 

[jrkotz]

I'll reiterate what's been said here a few times. While velocity and energy are two important factors, shot placement is utmost important. It takes a lot of practice to be able to confidently hit the vitals on a whitetail at 600 yards. You have a great setup for long range deer with the Tikka in 6.5 Creed, so long as you can put the bullet in the right spot, it should do it's job. Drop is easy to dial for, wind and target movement are much more difficult to master. Good luck this season!

 

[MajorSpittle]

With the proper bullet for long range terminal performance, what do you folks think the max lethal range a 6.5 Creedmoor could be on whitetail?

Just a couple things to think about with terminal performance using energy and velocity as a guide.

Smaller caliber rounds penatrate deeper with less energy/velocity with all things being equal.

Higher twist rates and muzzle velocity creates higher spin rates on the bullet which translates into better wound channels.

Longer bullets will perform better with everything else being equal.

If a bullet won't shatter an animal's shoulder I wouldn't consider it effective. You could probably guage this by putting a cast iron pan out at range and verifying it will penatrate it to get an idea of what to expect at a given range.

Point being that the energy/velocity rule will be much different for a 338 vs 6.5mm round and will be different depending on the type of bullet is used.

 

[jstamper]

You could probably guage this by putting a cast iron pan out at range and verifying it will penatrate it to get an idea of what to expect at a given range.

You guys must have some tough whitetails out west.

 

[jstamper]

I didn't make it all the way through all 7 pages, but just in case no one mentioned it, Nathan Foster in NZ rates the Creedmoor (and other 6.5 cartridges in its class) out to around 800 yards with bullets soft enough to expand at those impact velocities (I.e. ELD-M, etc.).

I personally feel better with a little more oomph out past around 600 yards, but Nathan and his cronies have had a hand in far, far more LR kills than me (and in fact, more than most folks). Also, his books on long-range cartridges are very in-depth with lots of real-world data, and his explanations of how bullets actually kill game make a lot of sense.

 

[MajorSpittle]

You guys must have some tough whitetails out west.

Actually cast iron is real brittle and a .22 lr will penatrate it pretty easy. It was probably a poor suggestion unless it is hanging with plywood attached in front of it to simulate conditions better.

 

[Canhunter35]

I shot a deer at 810 last year and 630. The 630flopped over, lots of damage. The 800 was a good shot but ran 100 yds before laying down. Damage wasn't significant so I'd recommend under 650yds. This was with the 143eldx at 2740fps mv

 

[TexasSportsman]

I believe that is bad information. Hornady says the ELD-X can reliably expand at 1600 fps, I wonder who you spoke with at Hornady?

He didn't say and I didn't ask. Now that I look at the numbers, a minimum of 1600fps for the ELD-X makes better sense. Which would make this round effective 700 - 800 yards.

I would say for the average hunter the range they are likely to shoot is 300 yds or less. Hunting whitetail in Texas nearly all of us hunt from a blind to a feeder that's about 75-125 yards out. There's really no need for expensive ammo when the standard Hornady American Whitetail .30-06 150gr Interlock more than adequate at those distances.

I am in the planning stages for an elk hunt. Sometime in 2021 or 2022. I found an interesting article from the RMEF.

Just because you can shoot long, doesn't necessarily mean you should

Those who choose long-range marksmanship over real woodcraft forfeit the best of hunting: intimate encounters that make the heart gallop. Killing is a simple act, [...]

www.rmef.org

 

[OG10]

Are you talking 70-90 lb Texas hil country does ?Or are you talking 250 lb and up northern deer? Field conditions rarely equal bench shooting.Energy and speed mean nothing bc is irrelevant if you can not make a clean and ethical shot.This has been stated by many, so go shoot your rifle and honestly determine your limits based on your shoting skill.I personaly limit my 6.5 with 140 eldm to 500 yards in perfect conditions and practice past that distance alot unlike some .Go put some rounds down range at 4,5,6 hundred yards and see how you do then stand up and shot off hand, at the same distance some where in there you find your happy zone.What conditions, and how you hunt will limit your max distance more than charts and graphs.Just a thought.

 

[Nomosendero]

This is excellent advise. I shot a deer on a steep hillside by myself at about 550 yards with my 300 min mag. After the shot, I couldn't see what happened. The deer was on a steep open hillside that was mostly open. It completely vanished. After not being able to find the deer in my rifle scope and then binoculars for 5 minutes, I started picking apart the hillsides with my spotting scope. 15 minutes later, I was able to spot him 100+ yards downhill belly up. It turns out he was hit in shoulder and must have immediately started rolling downhill after the shot. This one turned out with a happy ending but if the shot was less than good, it would have been nice to have an extra set of eyes watching the vapor trail and deer after the shot. I've shot other deer and other big game animals at extended ranges and even though I've recovered every animal that I've shot more than 500 yards at immediately, I do think it is a very beneficial to have a spotter. There is a reason military snipers often work in teams.

You and 73driver are spot on with this.
The type of brush in the area is another factor in how far I will shoot game. In areas I have hunted in WY. I am much more comfortable in shooting at distance than in AR., esp. in South AR clearcuts. In the Plains you can find the animal (may take awhile) but if you shoot a Deer crossing a pipe line or highline right of way (esp. in a clearcut) you better have some blood quick or a dog. Once I crawled around in the briers and pines for a couple of hours before I found the buck, he only made it 50 yds or so, but my starting place was 30 yds or so off the mark, the further the shot the harder to pinpoint where the animal was standing.
So, there is alot to consider but I want the capability for a longer shot under the right circumstances of wind and all other factors such as these.

 

[Nomosendero]

What's crazy is you run out of case capacity with RL26 before you hit pressure. I had the 143 ELDX a little over 3000 fps but it's accuracy node is a 2950 fps (just like the 6.5-284). I may sell my 6.5-284 since I'm only getting 50 fps more than the Creed now.

That is amazing! I have seen this mentioned before, I assumed that many were running high pressures like folks do with AI rounds but I can see that is not your experience. I loaded my Wife's CM to 2825 with the 140 NP for an AR Elk hunt (like winning the lottery and she scored) but is as far as I took it with RL26.
To me if the difference is even 100fps I would just as soon hang with the CM. And I understand the 6.5PRC is faster than the 6.5-284 but not enough to matter, just slightly, that's why I am studying the Wea. RPM. That may be a little off topic but not completely. I think you might have a little more of an edge at 600 yds if you have a 156 Berger or 142 LRAccubond starting at 3050-3100fps.

 

[Joefrazell]

Velocity is what we really need to be looking at closely. If the bullet expands it will work. I've got a buddy who shot a bull elk (6point) at 930 yards with the 143 eldx. Bullet was recovered in far side hide and had a nice mushroom. Bull died within 20 seconds. Obviously this isn't ideal but if you put a bullet through the lungs it will work.

 

[renagde]

Velocity is what we really need to be looking at closely. If the bullet expands it will work. I've got a buddy who shot a bull elk (6point) at 930 yards with the 143 eldx. Bullet was recovered in far side hide and had a nice mushroom. Bull died within 20 seconds. Obviously this isn't ideal but if you put a bullet through the lungs it will work.

Very true. I believe the CEB Lazers are advertised to expand down to 1200 fps.

 

[HawkeyeSATX]

Many bullet manufacturers state that optimal bullet performance is at/above 1800 fps. Hornady is one of many that state this.
Now, I believe it depends on the skill of the person shooting, along with if you've been hiking a considerable distance, and breathing control, and recognizing heart beat, etc...
I think that for most average hunters the distance should be 300-350 yds.
Even that is a long distance. Most game should be taken under 500 yds, I believe. We owe it to ourselves, and the animals we hunt to be as close as possible when we touch off our shots.