6.5 Creedmoor: Maximum Lethal Range for Whitetail

[skinnyjk]

I've spent the past couple days browsing forums on this very topic. Based off what I read 500-600 yards is going to be the max distance many would feel the 6.5 Creedmoor with the proper bullet can reliably take down a whitetail.

I just got a Tikka T3x in 6.5 with a Leupold Mark5 HD 3.6-18X44 scope. I am going to try 3 different factory loads: Federal Terminal Ascent 130 grain, Nosler Accubond Long Range 129 grain and Hornady Precision Hunter 143 grain ELD-X. All three are softer construction designed to expand at long range.

With the proper bullet for long range terminal performance, what do you folks think the max lethal range a 6.5 Creedmoor could be on whitetail?

That depends more on how far away you can reliably make a good shot than the actual lethality of the bullet.

 

[DMP25-06]

Interesting thanks, looking foreward to seeing what becomes of that bullet.

Total side note, but the rounds we've found to put the goats down quickest, hence from wondering off into space are year in and year out the good old Swift and 22/250.........aren't I the trouble maker

Dogs ,

What bullets , muzzle velocity , and ranges are the .220 Swifts and .22-250's taking big game animals at ?
I have a .220 Swift shooting 80 gr AMAX/ELDM bullets at 3305 FPS , that is deadly accurate at 700 yards .
I have never taken a large animal with it , but I would consider it to be adequate for antelope or deer out to 600 yards , due to retained velocity of 2246 FPS and retained energy of 896 ft.lbs., at that range .
Just curiosity on my part .

Thank You ,
DMP25-06

 

[dogz]

Generally sub 400 on small big game like deer and lopes. The farthest we've gone is 505, that lope took a 60 NSB and a two steps and pitched over.

55 Horn w/c, 60 Horn HP, 63 Sierra, 55 and 60 Nozler Solid Bases have done the most of our work. We've used the mono's as well, they kill them, generally without the dramatic down and out right now but they do kill them just fine.

Speed ranges 3500-3700 barrel and loader depending.

Our family uses our 22/250 for 90% of our taking of game.

Obviously we're running these at long ranges but we've found that 400 is generally plenty far and it's rare when we can't close the gap to that or quicker.

Elk, we keep it sub 300, doink them behind the front, they'll take a few wobbly steps and hit the terra firma and head right for our deep freeze....

 

[dogz]

Side note, sorry to the OP for the turn, now back to his thread...

 

[General RE LEE]

I called Hornady Tech Support...they said the ELD-X 6.5 CM 143gr requires a minimum of 2000 fps to expand. So this over the counter round is lethal out to 500 yards.

I found similar data for the Hornady American Whitetail .30-06 150gr SP is lethal out to 450 yards it requires a minimum of 1800fps to expand. Remington Core-Lokt and Federal Power Shock the same caliber and bullet weight also requires 1800fps to expand and at the same distance of 400 - 450 yards.

Most OTC ammo is good well beyond the 400-500 yard range if you're shooting steel plates because we don't care about expansion just a loud clang.

I believe that is bad information. Hornady says the ELD-X can reliably expand at 1600 fps, I wonder who you spoke with at Hornady?

 

[Snowboy]

I've spent the past couple days browsing forums on this very topic. Based off what I read 500-600 yards is going to be the max distance many would feel the 6.5 Creedmoor with the proper bullet can reliably take down a whitetail.

I just got a Tikka T3x in 6.5 with a Leupold Mark5 HD 3.6-18X44 scope. I am going to try 3 different factory loads: Federal Terminal Ascent 130 grain, Nosler Accubond Long Range 129 grain and Hornady Precision Hunter 143 grain ELD-X. All three are softer construction designed to expand at long range.

With the proper bullet for long range terminal performance, what do you folks think the max lethal range a 6.5 Creedmoor could be on whitetail?

You can kill a whitetail with a .22 magnum but the trick is hitting it in a vital area. Under hunting conditions do the animal a favour and limit yourself to a range guaranteed to do the job right. This is why we call ourselves hunters not shooters.

 

[Snowboy]

This is a REALLY important distinction, and where most Creedmoor supporters and haters get tripped up.

On one hand there is plenty of data out there showing that with proper shot placement, premium hunting bullets such as the 143gr ELD-X will reliably expand and kill down to 1600fps or so. For my handloads at the places I usually hunt, that means the maximum lethal range based on bullet performance alone extends out past 1000yds, if we use the 1000 ftlbs energy threshold that brings it back to around 850-900 or so.

In the real world though, you cant hold everything else in a vacuum, so you have to account for things like wind and shooter error. The 80% hit probability noted above is honestly a little low (needs to be nearly 100% when we are talking about living animals), but its a good line in the sand where someone needs to really stop and consider whether its worth trying to set up a better shot with higher probability.

Me personally? I have trained and gotten myself to the point that I can reliably lay out my shooting mat, get on my rifle, and make consistent cold bore shots on a 10" gong that I have set up at 800yds on a piece of land I hunt regularly. When I say consistent in the context of hunting, I mean I can do this greater than 90% of the time in varying conditions. With that level of consistency, I know I can hit the animal in the vitals, and I know the bullet will do its job when it gets there.

It is nice that you have obliging deer that don't move around on you.

 

[1894C]

 

[25WSM]

All cartridges have limits. And if you stay within those limits and your own shooting limits you should be good.
So many Creed haters out there that have never even shot one. And to all who think a Creed won't run 2900 to 2950 all day long with 140s and rl26 you obviously have not owned one or tried the combo. I've seen one rifle that couldn't do it and it has a 22 inch barrel and shoots factory loads 150 fps slower than it should. It's a tack driver but slow. When I ran my Creed at 2975 in my 1000 yard gun with 147eldms I was getting 10 firings on my brass. But anyone can believe what they want and your not going to change their mind even if they watched me do it. I have no reason to lie about it. It is what is is.

Shep

 

[73driver]

The effective range will vary with different hunting bullets. The 6.5 Creedmoor head stamp does not impart magical qualities of lethality to ordinary bullets that they do not have when fired from other rifles with 6.5mm bores. Keep in mind that the 6.5CM was designed to be a precision long range target round. There is a big difference between poking a hole in paper or cardboard and killing a large animal quickly and humanely. As many posts in this thread have pointed out, a 6.5mm bullet with adequate velocity will likely work very well at 500 yds or less. If I were intending to hunt a longer ranges, like 600 to 1000+ my 6.5CM and 260Rem would become target rifles and I would be carrying a rifle with larger bore (heavier bullet) and lots of oomph, probably a magnum. If I were intending to shoot at live animals over far distances, I would consider it an obligation to myself and the animal to use a rifle/cartridge/bullet capable of consistent lethal performance at those distances. The 6.5 bullets excel at a lot of things but they are still ruled by ballistics and gravity.

All the above also applies to the 308

 

[73driver]

Given a rifle that is accurate enough and a shooter practiced enough and a shooting situation that allows it most of what I refer to as the standard cartridges (traces their roots back the 30/06) can easily take a deer at 500 yards. Some will give a shooter a little more margin than others, like your 6.5 CM, high BC bullet a lot of inherent accouracy etc. With the right accurate ammo your 6.5 CM can do it for sure.

Now the real question is how much time have you spent shooting paper or steel at 500 yards using field rests? How many deer have you shot at 500 yards with another rifle? Have you studied how to call wind? How accurate and consistent is this new rifle at 500 yards? Is the area you're hunting even conducive to producing 500 yard shot opportunities? I'm saying these things not to attack you but to give you ideas on how to get your Tikka and your skills ready to shoot 500 yards when the time comes. If you don't have long range experience start watching videos on technique. Get out to the range or somewhere you can shoot farther and get some trigger time. Learn about wind and wind calls. This is the hardest part of longer range shooting.

I hope that Tikka is a shooter. Most of the ones I've seen have been very accurate.

DING DING DING one of the most legit responses I have ever read on this general topic. I will add one more thought, if you are going to be shooting past 350 yards I strongly recommend a partner as a spotter to see what the game does after hit and where it goes and drops. Across a small canyon in brushy country, it's a big deal recovering game.

 

[hoffbill]

I believe that is bad information. Hornady says the ELD-X can reliably expand at 1600 fps, I wonder who you spoke with at Hornady?

Whatever number you choose, it will have variables, for example on a broadside heart lung shot whether it strikes a rib or goes between ribs can make a big difference in the terminal performance past that point.

 

[73driver]

Some people here won't agree with what I'm going to say, but I don't want to see you lose deer or have to trail one for half a mile or more. I've already had to trail antelope on more than one occasion with the 6.5, with a perfect hit at under 200 yards(not from my rifle). Nearly all of the softer (cup and core) bullets lose the ability to mushroom effectively below about 1500fps. That's true for .243 cal up to 30 cal. The larger calibers have even heavier jackets, and will pencil through a Whitetail deer at speeds below around 1800fps(exceptions being some of the 180 and 200 grain .338 bullets and the Sierra 225 grain .358 bullet). But they start with larger entrance wounds and still make exit wounds that exceed .35cal just due to their original diameters. A .264 cal bullet at 400 yards won't create a large temporary or permanent wound channel because it has lost velocity and impact. Impact and broad wound channels are the result of hydrolic and Hydrostatic shock, and below around 2200fps, the smaller, lower massed bullets have lost most of their ability to create the shock wave in tissue needed to create this effect. A 30-06 at 300 yards with a 180 grain high-BC bullet launched at 2750 fps will have you blood-trailing a big Whitetail about 30% of the time, and it has much better penetration, impact and wounding capacity than any of the medium velocity 6.5mm cartridges. Bullet construction has a big effect on killing capacity, too. A bonded bullet is great if you're launching it at 2850 or above, and expect to have it hold together through heavy bone at around 40 to 150 yards. At 600 yards, nearly all bonded bullets and mono bullets will fail to open up due to their heavier construction. However, a standard bullet launched at around 2750fps will hold together at close range and at a distance, even through a Whitetail's shoulder if it is heavy enough. It will also mushroom at a lower velocity than any of the 'premium' bullets. I would limit my shots with the Creedmoor to around 400-450 yards, and use either Speer, Sierra GKs or Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets in their heaviest offerings. They all offer a 140 grain hunting bullet, and their BCs are all bove .5 or better. If you want to go farther, either up the bullet diameter or go with a higher velocity offering, or both. Killing doesn't come from speed only. It comes from a combination of speed, actual mass, diameter of the bullet, and matching the bullet construction to the game. Also, keep in mind that foot-pounds per Sq. in. is a little deceptive. for instance, and 22-250 launching a 50 grain bullet at standard velicities and a 45-70 launching a 405 grain factory round have about the same ftlb rating. No-one is going to argue that the 22-250 is going to be an effective bear round, while the 45-70 is decidedly so.

So I have a decades of experience with the 270 140gr cup&core bullets on coues whitetail and they have all dropped hard at ranges from 220y-300y. I have a difficult time imagining lopes not going down to a 6.5 130/140 bullet at 200 yards. Being as how the 270 cup and core 140 grainer at 300y can't be that different from a 6.5 bullet at 200y.

 

[Starlite]

I've spent the past couple days browsing forums on this very topic. Based off what I read 500-600 yards is going to be the max distance many would feel the 6.5 Creedmoor with the proper bullet can reliably take down a whitetail.

I just got a Tikka T3x in 6.5 with a Leupold Mark5 HD 3.6-18X44 scope. I am going to try 3 different factory loads: Federal Terminal Ascent 130 grain, Nosler Accubond Long Range 129 grain and Hornady Precision Hunter 143 grain ELD-X. All three are softer construction designed to expand at long range.

With the proper bullet for long range terminal performance, what do you folks think the max lethal range a 6.5 Creedmoor could be on whitetail?

Go to YouTube and look up: Simple Minded Fella.... his Ballistic gel tests are accurate. He simulates long range shots by decreasing velocity to ~1800fps at impact. I think you'll fine some surprises there.
good luck.